Why should I be an atheist?
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03-05-2017, 07:42 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You hold that Christianity is belief based on no evidence.

Yep. Well, bad evidence. No scientific evidence.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You claimed that holding such a belief makes you more gullible, and listed a variety of examples of gullibility.

Yep.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You made a hypothesis, presented it as a fact, and have dodged every turn to actually support it.

Listing examples of gullibility, would in fact support my statement. Or do I need to explain why email scams are bad? So don't say I dodged.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm a Christian, and you claim that being a Christian makes me more receptive to gullibility...

Since there are different types of christians...

Do you believe that a man rose from the dead?
Do you believe that a god impregnated a virgin with himself?

If you do, then yes that makes you gullible.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Now it may be true that you were sloppy, and didn’t carefully lay out your position, and as result it’s been misinterpreted by me. But misinterpreting a poorly constructed claim is not the same as strawmaning.

Yes, I was sloppy. I should have said that belief without evidence can lead to gullibility which leads to negative effects.

Now, giving you some credit, I'd like to think that you do understand why gullibility is bad. If you don't then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  That being a christian, makes you more gullible than others to fall for things that support, or appeal to your christian beliefs, than non-christians.

How many christians appeal to prayer, despite it's proven ineffectiveness?
How many christians scream "miracle" every time something unusual happens?
How many christians justify their hate and prejudice on the ramblings of 2000 year old texts?

Sounds pretty gullible to me.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If it’s not, then it’s as superficially true, as pointing out that anti-theists, atheists are more prone to gullibility regarding views in support of their particular positions, than non-atheists.

Again you generalize. Atheists share the viewpoint that god does not exist. Anti-theists add one more, that religion is evil. Beyond that there is no grouping.

And while anyone can be gullible, a skeptical mindset tends to discourage it.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Or that liberals/conservatives are more prone to gullibility in favor of their particular political positions, than those that who don’t share their political persuasion.

Actually, political views are often held without any evidence and yes, trusting a politician is the definition of gullibility.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  The OP gave no reason to assume he used it incorrectly.

The OP used the Wager in the same way that many other apologists do. If you want to nitpick, the OP gave no reason to assume they were using it correctly.

(03-05-2017 06:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Again I claimed that Pascal wasn’t using it as an argument for christianity, as a compelling reason for a disbeliever to believe, or anything of the sort. Full Stop. If you want to continue with how theists misuse his wager, you go on right ahead with your straw men. I addressed individuals who appealed to Pascal himself as the basis of their views regarding the wager.

Whatever.

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03-05-2017, 07:45 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 07:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-05-2017 06:56 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  Televangelists? Any atheists sending money to them?

No, they're sending money to Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Margaret O'hair, Richard Carrier, The Rational Response Squad.

Define "sending money".

People are making donations? Or buying merchandise of some sort?

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03-05-2017, 07:48 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 07:14 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, they're sending money to Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins,

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Did it hurt when they drained what passed for your brain in Bible Boot Camp?

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03-05-2017, 07:51 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 07:48 AM)Vera Wrote:  Did it hurt when they drained what passed for your brain in Bible Boot Camp?

Not at all, he entered and left the lobotomizer with *exactly* the same IQ. Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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03-05-2017, 07:51 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
I've never given a penny to any of those people, unless they got some revenue from me watching a youtube video.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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03-05-2017, 07:51 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 05:11 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Truth is exclusive by nature. If something is true then all beliefs and views that contradict it are false. An atheistic worldview and competing theistic ones can't both be true. And by that very nature, adherents to them hold there is true and the other is false.

I don't think anyone is arguing against that. I'm certainly not. I AM arguing that this means that Pascal's Wager idea that "if you choose to believe but are wrong about it, then you've lost nothing" is complete bunk. How you live matters in the here and now.

(02-05-2017 05:11 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And while I know many people many christians who are exclusive monotheist, I don't know any personally who are abusive to minorities, probably because most of them are minorities themselves, and were born in countries where Christians are a minority, in which they themselves have been victims of abuse by those in power.

I do know some Christians who are abusive to minorities. Who have been abusive to me particularly in the name of their religion. And don't give me that "they are minorities and victims so they would never dream of abusing others" bullshit. All groups are capable of abusing others. Some minorities are less minor than others, and they survive by the oppression of those lesser than they on the totem pole. And let me tell you, the farther down on that totem pole you are, the more abuse that gets heaped on you because in our society and most societies, it's always been okay to abuse the lesser fortunate.

Christians are not by default better simply because they are Christians and they are victims too sometimes. There's a reason the term "oppression olympics" is a thing.

(02-05-2017 05:11 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Some truths have real and immediate value depending on context, some don't. In this particular context the truth about your eye color, gender is inconsequential. Even if i thought you had blues eyes, and I ended up being wrong, it would be of no consequence, real or immediate.

Who fucking cares- we're talking about the truth of whether or not there's a god, and whether or not it's reasonable to assume that you can choose to worship that god to save your own ass- AND whether or not it's a safer bet with no consequences if you choose to go ahead and believe and you're wrong. If you're wrong- that falsehood has real and immediate impact. It's not as clear-cut as Pascal and many Christians make it out to be. Unless, of course, you're simply a sociopath and you don't care who you fuck along the way as long as you "get yours". And surely and god worth their salt would see through that way of thinking.
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03-05-2017, 08:04 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 07:51 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(03-05-2017 07:48 AM)Vera Wrote:  Did it hurt when they drained what passed for your brain in Bible Boot Camp?

Not at all, he entered and left the lobotomizer with *exactly* the same IQ. Dodgy

You mean to say there was no yucky stuff to scoop out? Who would've thunk it.

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03-05-2017, 08:14 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(02-05-2017 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  ... I'm a believer. I can see a variety of positive gains from being a believer, that contribute to both my fulfillment and happiness, in this present life as well.

Can you list specifically a few of those positive gains? Both for your happiness and, more importantly, your "fulfillment"?

What defines your fulfillment such that it's more rewarding than, say, an atheist's? Do you believe that an atheist's sense of fulfillment—and real life experiences—are of less worth than that of a theist?

Could you also elaborate on the phrase that you use: "in this present life as well"? Are you implying that some sort of afterlife is superior to your current real-world life (as well)? And if so, then what viable evidence has convinced you of the existence of this purported afterlife and/or its specific qualities?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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03-05-2017, 08:35 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
Zombocalypse Wrote:According to Blaise Pascal, it is a much safer bet to believe in God. And with that said, why be an atheist?
No, it is not safer.
You might believe in wrong god.

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03-05-2017, 08:45 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:35 AM)Alla Wrote:  
Zombocalypse Wrote:According to Blaise Pascal, it is a much safer bet to believe in God. And with that said, why be an atheist?
No, it is not safer.
You might believe in wrong god.

Belief in a creator god was trumps until I invented a non-existent emergent creator god. Zeroth commandment. Thumbsup

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