Why should I be an atheist?
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03-05-2017, 08:49 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 07:42 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  How many christians appeal to prayer, despite it's proven ineffectiveness?
How many christians scream "miracle" every time something unusual happens?
How many christians justify their hate and prejudice on the ramblings of 2000 year old texts?

Sounds pretty gullible to me.

It’s good to see that you finally reduced your box, to gullibility towards beliefs supportive of one’s religions persuasion, and stayed away from trying to argue that this extends beyond this.

But still your psychological hypothesis is a bit crude, the underlying reality is this:

If a person value belief (x). They are more receptive to believing things in support of it, even if it’s poorly formed support, and less receptive to believing things opposed to it. And you could put any valued belief, theistic, atheistic, political, philosophical, etc… and this would hold as true.

I don’t go around screaming that every thing unusual is supernatural, because I don’t give any real value to claiming unusual things as supernatural. I also don’t hold a belief that prayer changes a preordained outcome, as some other believers might, because I lean towards calvinism, and have quasi-deterministic view of reality. Hence why your examples fail when it comes to theist such as myself. So being christian in and of itself, doesn’t make me anymore prone to the tendencies of your example.

The real reason why some one might be more gullible to certain claims, is because of the value they place on the particular outcome of the claim. And not because they hold other unrelated non-evidence based views.

Quote:And while anyone can be gullible, a skeptical mindset tends to discourage it.

In reality there is no such thing as a skeptical mindset, there’s just minds, that operate the way minds are predisposed to operating. So if we leave the sort of fantasy world type skepticism you have in mind, the reality here is this: People are more critical of positions opposed to their cherished views, and less critical of those supportive of them. Anti-theists are less skeptical in regards to anti-theistic non-sense, than theist who are highly critical of anti-theistic non-sense, because theist are personally invested in finding and pointing out the nonsense.

If you value materialism, naturalism, you’re likely to be more skeptical of claims and views that run counter to it.

Gullibility, the readiness to believe is not the result of believing something without evidence, but the result of the values we place on the outcome. It doesn’t matter what the outcome is, theistic, atheistic, religious, secular, as long we value one particular outcome more so than the other, this holds true.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-05-2017, 09:02 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Gullibility, the readiness to believe is not the result of believing something without evidence, but the result of the values we place on the outcome. It doesn’t matter what the outcome is, theistic, atheistic, religious, secular, as long we value one particular outcome more so than the other, this holds true.

The values we place on the outcome. What outcome?

Gullibility arises from believing shit without evidence. You keep thinking anecdote is evidence. Stop doing that. And stop arguing just to argue.

'Cause you suck at it.

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03-05-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  In reality there is no such thing as a skeptical mindset, there’s just minds, that operate the way minds are predisposed to operating. So if we leave the sort of fantasy world type skepticism you have in mind, the reality here is this: People are more critical of positions opposed to their cherished views, and less critical of those supportive of them. Anti-theists are less skeptical in regards to anti-theistic non-sense, than theist who are highly critical of anti-theistic non-sense, because theist are personally invested in finding and pointing out the nonsense.

What horseshit. This is just another flavor of "atheists have faith too" in an attempt to put everyone on the same playing field to make yourself feel better.
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03-05-2017, 09:25 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I also don’t hold a belief that prayer changes a preordained outcome, as some other believers might, because I lean towards calvinism, and have quasi-deterministic view of reality.

Just a question about Calvinism here. What is the purpose of prayer? You can't change outcomes so why take action to try?

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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03-05-2017, 09:25 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It’s good to see that you finally reduced your box, to gullibility towards beliefs supportive of one’s religions persuasion, and stayed away from trying to argue that this extends beyond this.

Frusty

Aaaaaaaaaand we're done.

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03-05-2017, 09:45 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 09:25 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It’s good to see that you finally reduced your box, to gullibility towards beliefs supportive of one’s religions persuasion, and stayed away from trying to argue that this extends beyond this.

Frusty

Aaaaaaaaaand we're done.
I know, frustrating isn't it. More coils twisting and convolutions than a couple of randy snakes.
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03-05-2017, 10:07 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:14 AM)SYZ Wrote:  ]Can you list specifically a few of those positive gains? Both for your happiness and, more importantly, your "fulfillment"?

Let’s see I’m foreigner. I was born in India, being born a christian, to christian parents, one positive outcome, is that it allowed my parents to move to an entirely different country, and have a large support network, a community in place to welcome them, and be their for them, and support them any way they can. Being a christian immigrant, in a country in which Christianity is the dominant religion, allowed us to quickly assimilate, and connect to a variety of other ethnic communities, African-American christian communities, Nigerian, Spanish, Chinese, etc…., as well as the whites, unlike many of our Hindu counterparts who remained considerably more isolated. Being Christian had a positive effect, in contributing to integrating into the larger social fabric of America, shared values, perspectives, identity, revered history, etc.. And it’s a large part as to why my particular ethnic group is among the wealthiest, best educated in the country.

This interconnection, extends interpersonally as well. Allowing shared values, held as eternal constants, such as values placed on love, forgiveness, and a common language and perspective to share with my parents, older family members, friends, wife, etc… We have shared moral obligations, aims, that are see as intrinsic responsibilities. That we’re constantly held accountable to each other for. All of which have had positive effects, contributing to a good marriage, a strong core group of friends, a strong relationship with my family, my in-laws etc….

The christian belief in Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Life, has also been a very positive influence, in it’s ability to give life the perception of a moral aim, and purpose, whether true or not. A goal, that is not dependent on professional, or financial gain, but entirely about how one lives his life, and not what he physically gains from it, and is considerable source of fulfillment and meaning for me as a person. It’s an aim that allows me to reflect on my tendencies towards greed and selfishness, and the way I treat those close to me, etc…

Quote:What defines your fulfillment such that it's more rewarding than, say, an atheist's? Do you believe that an atheist's sense of fulfillment—and real life experiences—are of less worth than that of a theist?

I can’t speak of what would be more fulfilling and rewarding for you. I can’t say that you personally would be better off if you were a believer. I’m just speaking of myself, the role and effects of Christianity on me personally. And I can say that perhaps if I was some white kid, growing up in Idaho christianity would have less of a value for me than it does given my actual life.

I don’t know you personally, to say much of anything about your life. I can say in regards to the unbelievers, non-religious people I know, who I’ve spent a great deal of my life with, they are unhappy, lost and aimless, constantly in pursuit of something to fill a void, that never arrives, pleasures that faded. How much of this is true for unbelievers here, I can’t say.

Quote:Could you also elaborate on the phrase that you use: "in this present life as well"? Are you implying that some sort of afterlife is superior to your current real-world life (as well)?

No, I just meant to say that it contributes to my fulfillment and happiness in this life.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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03-05-2017, 10:09 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
Atheism is a religion like not playing golf is a hobby

“I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.” ~ Oscar Wilde
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03-05-2017, 10:10 AM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  But still your psychological hypothesis is a bit crude, the underlying reality is this:

Oh.
So now the idiot who doesn't know the difference between "then" and "than" in the English language is rating others arguments, and the fake PhD is "evaluating" what others say.
Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-05-2017, 10:25 AM (This post was last modified: 03-05-2017 10:29 AM by kim.)
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 10:09 AM)SeaJay Wrote:  Atheism is a religion like not playing golf is a hobby

I know that hobby. I don't play at all.
I'm told I am (was) quite good at the game and that I should go back to it.

There is a distinct difference in going through the required motions of what others consider a wonderful thing ... and truthfully loving that thing for one's self. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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