Why should I be an atheist?
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01-05-2017, 08:18 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
If I make up a new religion that has a worse hell than Christianity should you convert just to be sure you don't go to it, or should you pass it up because you believe it's bullshit?

Being an atheist isn't about weighing the pros and cons. I mean I'd love to live in a world with unicorns that shit rainbows, but the fact that I'd rather this reality exist isn't a good reason to believe that it does.

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01-05-2017, 08:19 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:13 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  
(01-05-2017 07:57 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  Well, let me start by first saying that you aren't the first to feel this way and many here can relate to the struggle of deconversion and the doubts I imagine you currently have, myself included.

I was terrified of hanging up my hat when I realized enough was enough and it was a long time before I felt confident in my disbelief even though I knew I no longer believed.

I'm happy to see you quoting Pascal but I do feel as though he is the one who messes up in this instance, if nihilism is correct (and there is plenty of reason to think it is from a neurological standpoint), and there is no inherent meaning to the world would you not be missing out on knowledge if you decided to play it safe? How about experiences? Do you deny yourself of anything because of your religion? Think about it and answer yourself honestly. Do you have any prejudices? Do you have any fears? Wouldn't it be better to live without them?


What if there is no afterlife and this is your only shot at life, why risk living life to it's fullest for a God who doesn't respect you enough to empirically prove to you that he exists? If you would like to explain what exactly you believe as a Christian I would tell you why I do not believe it specifically because I don't like to assume that you believe in anything you don't express. Smile


Quick Edit:
I have a ton of book recommendations on atheism that would, probably, articulate my views on this matter better and would probably give you some new things to think about that you haven't already (they did for me.)

Yes, please. Book recommendations are much appreciated.

As a Christian, I believe in an afterlife. But not in the traditional sense. I believe, as do many others, that we don't immediately go to our eternal destination (heaven or hell) when we die. Rather, we sleep in the grave until the so-called resurrection.

I believe that Jesus died for our sins.

I believe that God exists, but I guess that's a given...

What do you think?

If you believe all this stuff, why would you want to be an atheist? Something doesn't make sense here at all. If you believe in a god, why are you here? If you just want to ask questions about atheism, why lie?

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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01-05-2017, 08:19 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
Welcome although I must be frank with you that I find your choice of hero and role model odd, Napoleon was a despotic warmonger intent on conquering Europe, kind of like an early nineteenth century Hitler but without the genocide.
Thankfully both us and the Prussians put a stop to his shenanigans at Waterloo.
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01-05-2017, 08:21 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
1, You already are an atheist, to the thousands of deities outside Christianity. Does that cause you grief?

2. No theist has ever presented a compelling argument that his/her god exists.

3. I would say it helps you grow up. Right now you're living the life of someone being constantly watched and judged, which is not your true self.
(It's not encouragement I would give to a serial killer or rapist)
Learning who we are and growing as individuals requires us to make decisions based on our innate morality; not fear of magical punishment.

"Old men make old words holy. - A fool may scrawl on a slate and if no one has the wit to wipe it clean for a thousand years the scrawl becomes the wisdom of ages."

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01-05-2017, 08:22 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:13 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  As a Christian, I believe in an afterlife. But not in the traditional sense. I believe, as do many others, that we don't immediately go to our eternal destination (heaven or hell) when we die. Rather, we sleep in the grave until the so-called resurrection.

Why do you think there are so many different understandings of what happens? What can you do to determine which interpretation is actually correct?

Quote:I believe that Jesus died for our sins.

How exactly does that work? If I do something wrong then I need to make amends myself; I can't morally allow somebody else to take the fall.

Quote:I believe that God exists, but I guess that's a given...

Not to me. Why do you believe that? What could you do to convince me that there is a god?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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01-05-2017, 08:23 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:13 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  
(01-05-2017 07:57 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  Well, let me start by first saying that you aren't the first to feel this way and many here can relate to the struggle of deconversion and the doubts I imagine you currently have, myself included.

I was terrified of hanging up my hat when I realized enough was enough and it was a long time before I felt confident in my disbelief even though I knew I no longer believed.

I'm happy to see you quoting Pascal but I do feel as though he is the one who messes up in this instance, if nihilism is correct (and there is plenty of reason to think it is from a neurological standpoint), and there is no inherent meaning to the world would you not be missing out on knowledge if you decided to play it safe? How about experiences? Do you deny yourself of anything because of your religion? Think about it and answer yourself honestly. Do you have any prejudices? Do you have any fears? Wouldn't it be better to live without them?


What if there is no afterlife and this is your only shot at life, why risk living life to it's fullest for a God who doesn't respect you enough to empirically prove to you that he exists? If you would like to explain what exactly you believe as a Christian I would tell you why I do not believe it specifically because I don't like to assume that you believe in anything you don't express. Smile


Quick Edit:
I have a ton of book recommendations on atheism that would, probably, articulate my views on this matter better and would probably give you some new things to think about that you haven't already (they did for me.)

Yes, please. Book recommendations are much appreciated.

As a Christian, I believe in an afterlife. But not in the traditional sense. I believe, as do many others, that we don't immediately go to our eternal destination (heaven or hell) when we die. Rather, we sleep in the grave until the so-called resurrection.

I believe that Jesus died for our sins.

I believe that God exists, but I guess that's a given...

What do you think?


That would be a given. Big Grin

Well, I would ask you why you believe in that? What evidence do you think supports that this is so?
My answer will depend on yours. Smile


If you are a creationist look here for scientific responses to creationism. It's a long playlist but it's fantastic if you cannot buy/find the book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68EL...53A6F002CC

Book Recommendations: "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens, "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, "The Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism" by Aron Ra, "The Portable Atheist" by Christopher Hitchens (I love Hitchens), and "The Skeptics Annotated Bible" by Steve Wells.
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01-05-2017, 08:24 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:13 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  As a Christian, I believe in an afterlife. But not in the traditional sense. I believe, as do many others, that we don't immediately go to our eternal destination (heaven or hell) when we die. Rather, we sleep in the grave until the so-called resurrection.

I believe that Jesus died for our sins.

I believe that God exists, but I guess that's a given...

What do you think?
I think you afford belief to things that are not substantiated, and in fact, to things that are unsubstantiatABLE.

I am an atheist as a side effect of being a person that does not afford belief to things that are not worthy of belief, because they are not evidenced.

Invisible beings and realms are inherently unfalsifiable and therefore unprovable / unsubstantiatable / unable to be evidenced.

As others have pointed out, Pascal's Wager is inherently flawed.
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01-05-2017, 08:26 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:13 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  Yes, please. Book recommendations are much appreciated.

As a Christian, I believe in an afterlife. But not in the traditional sense. I believe, as do many others, that we don't immediately go to our eternal destination (heaven or hell) when we die. Rather, we sleep in the grave until the so-called resurrection.

I believe that Jesus died for our sins.

I believe that God exists, but I guess that's a given...

What do you think?

You answered the question I was going to ask, which was about divinity of Christ and his death for sins and Resurrection. Anyhow, personally I don't believe we fully choose our beliefs; subconscious brain versus conscious decisions, geography and how we were raised, (indoctrination if you care to use a word that often floats around here), etc.

Anyhow, I'm the token voice in the thread that won't be trying to talk you out of faith. Though, book wise if you want to examine your beliefs, compared to what you might see people say, here's my atheism-related bookshelf (well not counting ones that are generalized social science possibly as well):

The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins
Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris
Breaking the Spell by Daniel Dennett
Godless by Dan Barker
Deconverted by Seth Andrews
Sacred Cows by Seth Andrews
From Apostle to Apostate by Catherine Dunphy
Caught in the Pulpit by Daniel Dennett and Linda LaScola
Trusting Doubt by Valerie Tarico
Fighting God by David Silverman

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01-05-2017, 08:30 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
There is no should or shouldn't. You either believe or you don't. The rest just comes along for the ride.
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01-05-2017, 08:32 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:13 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  
(01-05-2017 07:57 PM)Larai19 Wrote:  Well, let me start by first saying that you aren't the first to feel this way and many here can relate to the struggle of deconversion and the doubts I imagine you currently have, myself included.

I was terrified of hanging up my hat when I realized enough was enough and it was a long time before I felt confident in my disbelief even though I knew I no longer believed.

I'm happy to see you quoting Pascal but I do feel as though he is the one who messes up in this instance, if nihilism is correct (and there is plenty of reason to think it is from a neurological standpoint), and there is no inherent meaning to the world would you not be missing out on knowledge if you decided to play it safe? How about experiences? Do you deny yourself of anything because of your religion? Think about it and answer yourself honestly. Do you have any prejudices? Do you have any fears? Wouldn't it be better to live without them?


What if there is no afterlife and this is your only shot at life, why risk living life to it's fullest for a God who doesn't respect you enough to empirically prove to you that he exists? If you would like to explain what exactly you believe as a Christian I would tell you why I do not believe it specifically because I don't like to assume that you believe in anything you don't express. Smile


Quick Edit:
I have a ton of book recommendations on atheism that would, probably, articulate my views on this matter better and would probably give you some new things to think about that you haven't already (they did for me.)

Yes, please. Book recommendations are much appreciated.

As a Christian, I believe in an afterlife. But not in the traditional sense. I believe, as do many others, that we don't immediately go to our eternal destination (heaven or hell) when we die. Rather, we sleep in the grave until the so-called resurrection.

I believe that Jesus died for our sins.

I believe that God exists, but I guess that's a given...

What do you think?

How did you learn God exists? Who told you? What if you grew up in India? Would you still believe in the Christian god? What if you grew up in Egypt before Jesus even entered the picture? Chances are, you'd be believing in Ra, the sun god.
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