Why should I be an atheist?
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05-05-2017, 11:47 AM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2017 12:48 PM by adey67.)
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(05-05-2017 11:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-05-2017 10:38 AM)JesseB Wrote:  HEY HEY HEY! I AIN'T NO FUCKING MONKEY!

Specifically I'm a great ape. Get it right dammit!

(Maybe it's just me, but saying this made me laugh my ass off)

Big Grin




I'm pretty sure this is me on the toilet.
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05-05-2017, 12:48 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(05-05-2017 11:38 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  


Christ, if I were incarcerated in that zoo I'd bloody well throw poop at people too. What the fuck is with all the screaming?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-05-2017, 12:49 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If a person value belief (x). They are more receptive to believing things in support of it, even if it’s poorly formed support, and less receptive to believing things opposed to it. And you could put any valued belief, theistic, atheistic, political, philosophical, etc… and this would hold as true.

Tommyrot. How do you think I got to my atheism myself, without questioning my precepts? And millions of others? You do realize that most American atheists started out as believers, right? How do you think they lost their faith, if not by being receptive to the opposing view?

And do you think once we lost faith we immediately stopped asking questions, and put our skepticism away?

Just because you are incapable of overcoming your bias doesn't mean everyone else shares that inability.
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05-05-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 07:41 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  Why should I be an atheist?

Because there's probably a really old book somewhere that says you should.
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05-05-2017, 01:09 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
Why shouldn't you be an atheist?
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05-05-2017, 01:22 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(05-05-2017 12:49 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If a person value belief (x). They are more receptive to believing things in support of it, even if it’s poorly formed support, and less receptive to believing things opposed to it. And you could put any valued belief, theistic, atheistic, political, philosophical, etc… and this would hold as true.

Tommyrot. How do you think I got to my atheism myself, without questioning my precepts? And millions of others? You do realize that most American atheists started out as believers, right? How do you think they lost their faith, if not by being receptive to the opposing view?

And do you think once we lost faith we immediately stopped asking questions, and put our skepticism away?

Just because you are incapable of overcoming your bias doesn't mean everyone else shares that inability.

Simply claiming that you've overcome your biases though doesn't mean that you actually have done so. I believe the biases that Tomasia is talking about are active in all of us. That we're more receptive to things we already agree with, and hyper-critical of things we don't agree with. It's a double standard, and it biases you to continue believing what you already believe more strongly. It includes confirmation bias and the backfire effect. These are human biases which we all share.



Personally, I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with being a religious person. But then I think about things like the history of religious oppression, and the awful legislative efforts being pushed on behalf of creationism, and so forth, and I wonder if believing in a religion doesn't predispose you towards certain dickish kinds of behavior. Is the behavior the fault of religion, or simply the outer face of people who would be dickish with or without religion? I don't know. I believe that beliefs have consequences, and some of the beliefs of the religious have the propensity toward being damaging, but how it all washes out, I don't know. The religious compartmentalize just like anyone else. That would lead me to believe it's not the religion that is doing the harm. But then we have all these examples.
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05-05-2017, 01:36 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(03-05-2017 08:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And you could put any valued belief, theistic, atheistic, ....

Atheistic belief? What belief? The belief in "not-God"? How often has it to be said before it sinks in, that there is no atheistic belief? Facepalm

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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05-05-2017, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2017 02:19 PM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(05-05-2017 01:22 PM)big green mouth Wrote:  Simply claiming that you've overcome your biases though doesn't mean that you actually have done so. I believe the biases that Tomasia is talking about are active in all of us. That we're more receptive to things we already agree with, and hyper-critical of things we don't agree with. It's a double standard, and it biases you to continue believing what you already believe more strongly. It includes confirmation bias and the backfire effect. These are human biases which we all share.

I didn't say I'm free of bias. I took issue with his insinuation that this bias dooms each and every one of us to disregarding countervailing evidence. Knowing this human proclivity, we can work our way around or through it. It requires discipline. But it can be done.

Of course we're more prone to giving a friendlier ear to that which comports with our worldviews, or tells us we're handsome, or whatever. That is hardly news. But it's a long leap going from that to "in reality there's no such thing as a skeptical mindset".
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05-05-2017, 04:18 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(05-05-2017 02:14 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(05-05-2017 01:22 PM)big green mouth Wrote:  Simply claiming that you've overcome your biases though doesn't mean that you actually have done so. I believe the biases that Tomasia is talking about are active in all of us. That we're more receptive to things we already agree with, and hyper-critical of things we don't agree with. It's a double standard, and it biases you to continue believing what you already believe more strongly. It includes confirmation bias and the backfire effect. These are human biases which we all share.

I didn't say I'm free of bias. I took issue with his insinuation that this bias dooms each and every one of us to disregarding countervailing evidence. Knowing this human proclivity, we can work our way around or through it. It requires discipline. But it can be done.

Well I misunderstood you then. Still, I think he has a point. All that changes is what you consider countervailing evidence. A theist might think you closed minded for ignoring what they see as countervailing evidence against naturalism. There are no innocents in this battle. While the way he phrased it, that there is no skeptical mindset, may be superficially wrong, we're all victim of our biases. That doesn't mean that theism is right and atheism wrong, or vice versa. It simply means that there is no position which skepticism favors, and if you think that skepticism is the mode by which you arrived at atheism, you're likely fooling yourself. We can be more or less skeptical. It's not clear that there is any natural end result of that process.

(05-05-2017 02:14 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Of course we're more prone to giving a friendlier ear to that which comports with our worldviews, or tells us we're handsome, or whatever. That is hardly news. But it's a long leap going from that to "in reality there's no such thing as a skeptical mindset".

I think it's a foundational myth of atheism that skepticism leads to atheism as a natural course. I think all his point was is that this is not necessarily so, that it can just as easily lead to theism. At least that would be my point. I'll let him speak for himself.
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05-05-2017, 04:24 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(05-05-2017 04:18 PM)big green mouth Wrote:  I think it's a foundational myth of atheism that skepticism leads to atheism as a natural course. I think all his point was is that this is not necessarily so, that it can just as easily lead to theism. At least that would be my point. I'll let him speak for himself.

... What line of skeptical reasoning could lead to being a theist? Being a theist by definition means you believe in some kind of "God". Which is not per se daft by definition, except that as far as I'm aware there's no God with evidence for its existence that can be agreed upon even by alleged experts on the subject. Therefore I submit that belief in a God is irrational.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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