Why should I be an atheist?
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01-05-2017, 08:34 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:26 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Anyhow, I'm the token voice in the thread that won't be trying to talk you out of faith.

Excuse me, I am perfectly aware I am in a foul mood and thus, untypically cranky, but would you mind rephrasing this to something slightly less offensive and untrue? No one's trying to talk him/her out of anything. OP came here looking for... well, still not sure what exactly, and people are giving their opinion on the questions he/she raised. No one's preaching (and not just because it's not us who preach and proselytise) or trying to persuade him/her of anything, just pointing out the MYRIAD of holes in his/her (rather poisonous and detrimental to humanity) world-view.

Like I said, I know I'm in a vicious mood, but still...

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01-05-2017, 08:42 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 07:41 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  He's an enlightenment skeptic. He is unconvinced of the divinity of Jesus. That's about as heretical as anyone could ever be.
No it's not. Mormonism is way more heretical than that. Drinking Beverage

Your use of the word "should" is a bit concerning to me, Zombocalypse. Atheism is not a decision, and you don't need anyone else prescribing your beliefs to you. Belief is a discovery.

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01-05-2017, 08:43 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 07:41 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  Why should I be an atheist?

You shouldn't be.
At least you shouldn't be relying on others to convince you to be.

If you want to be an atheist you'll have to convince yourself by doing the legwork.
If you do it right, at some point you won't be able to convince yourself there is any good reason for you to believe in a god anymore.
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01-05-2017, 08:43 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:34 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(01-05-2017 08:26 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Anyhow, I'm the token voice in the thread that won't be trying to talk you out of faith.

Excuse me, I am perfectly aware I am in a foul mood and thus, untypically cranky, but would you mind rephrasing this to something slightly less offensive and untrue? No one's trying to talk him/her out of anything. OP came here looking for... well, still not sure what exactly, and people are giving their opinion on the questions he/she raised. No one's preaching (and not just because it's not us who preach and proselytise) or trying to persuade him/her of anything, just pointing out the MYRIAD of holes in his/her (rather poisonous and detrimental to humanity) world-view.

Like I said, I know I'm in a vicious mood, but still...
Apologies, not intending to be trying to offend people. Rather, just not trying to give him arguments in favor of an atheistic position naturally, as compared to his current sets of beliefs. Not saying that anyone is preaching anything; unlike if I were a character in Gramps Goes to College that I watched recently, which calls scientific inquiry a "Gospel of Death".

Personally, I find that Larai and Thoreauvian have pointed out the position that would most closely mirror my own. We don't necessarily choose our beliefs. that when deconversion happens, it's often the result of just realizing one day that one no longer believes, be that after a period of intellectual inquiry or not. While Jenny has pointed out the excellent point about geography and culture. If OP has been born and raised in the U.S., it is likely he would be a Christian, if that's the culture he has been raised in, and if his parents are also Christians.

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01-05-2017, 08:46 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 07:41 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  Why should I be an atheist?



As of this post, I am currently a devoted Christian. But I've been having some thoughts recently...

My hero and role model is Napoleon Bonaparte. Napoleon is NOT a Christian. He's an enlightenment skeptic. He is unconvinced of the divinity of Jesus. That's about as heretical as anyone could ever be.

I am a Christian for two reasons. Reason # 1: I want a glorious afterlife. Reason # 2: I fear the wrath of God.

However, if I'm an atheist, then I wouldn't really fear anything because I would be unconvinced of God's existence.

But the thing is... Why should I be an atheist? How could I be sure that there is no God?

According to Blaise Pascal, it is a much safer bet to believe in God. And with that said, why be an atheist?



In short, what are some good reasons for being an atheist? Will you list things for me, please? Point me to an article? Or a book?



I'm sorry if I seem like I'm all over the place. I'm having a hard time gathering my thoughts right now for whatever reason. lol



I'm not going to suggest that you be an atheist.

What I will suggest is that you start cultivating a healthy skepticism about your religious (and non-religious) beliefs. Not COMPLETE skepticism of the "you can't prove it to me ever" variety, but the sort of skepticism that at least double-checks, asks how you came to believe it, and takes a serious look at plausibility.

In other words, discard faith, look for evidence, and then make sure that evidence is actually up to muster rather than so much empty cobwebs. When no strong evidence presents itself, atheism generally follows from that.

For reading, I'd suggest that you Google "Deanna Laney" as an example of someone who had faith in and obeyed God, and then ask the following three questions.

1) What was wrong with how she went about deciding whether to believe in and obey God's message to her? To be clear, the question is not, "what was wrong with what she finally decided to do?", and not "What went wrong that she received such a bad message in the first place?" The question is "what was wrong with the process by which she reached that decision to BELIEVE that message?"

2) Ask, "What she should have done instead." And before you suggest making sure that the message doesn't contradict the Bible, review Isaac and Abraham.

3) And finally, ask, "Is my process vulnerable in the same way hers was?"
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01-05-2017, 08:48 PM
Why should I be an atheist?
Because you are having thoughts.... exactly. That is why you should become an atheist. It's what we do. We think.


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01-05-2017, 08:49 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:43 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  While Jenny has pointed out the excellent point about geography and culture.

Jenny and I both Wink

Frankly, to me this is the strongest argument in favour of "it's all bunk". What kind of a god monstrosity will let your eternal fate be decided by pure geographical coincidence...

And yeah, no offence really taken, it's just, the phrasing rubbed me the wrong way... then again, I might've been infesting the forum today, seeking whom I may devour Rolleyes

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01-05-2017, 08:52 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 07:41 PM)Zombocalypse Wrote:  Why should I be an atheist?

Why not?

Quote:My hero and role model is Napoleon Bonaparte. Napoleon is NOT a Christian. He's an enlightenment skeptic. He is unconvinced of the divinity of Jesus. That's about as heretical as anyone could ever be.

For a devout Christian maybe. For the rest of us it's pretty small potatoes.

Quote:I am a Christian for two reasons. Reason # 1: I want a glorious afterlife. Reason # 2: I fear the wrath of God.

In behaviour modification (aka brainwashing) this is referred to as "carrot and stick". It's a simple reward-punishment system that can be used to subvert an individuals will. What does it say about your religion that the "carrot and stick" feature so prominently?

Quote:But the thing is... Why should I be an atheist?

You get to live your life without the terror that somebody's invisible friend will set you on fire and beat the shit out of you for the rest of time.

Quote:How could I be sure that there is no God?

How can you be sure that your God is the correct God?

The Muslims believe that you will burn in hell for not believing in Allah. I'm willing to bet that you haven't lost much sleep over their belief, nor will you even though I've pointed it out to you. You likely dismiss it as the superstitious mythology of a backward culture.

Your God is identical aside from the trappings and fine details.

Quote:According to Blaise Pascal, it is a much safer bet to believe in God.

Blaise Pascal may well have died from one of the many fallacies in his "Wager".

Quote:In short, what are some good reasons for being an atheist?

For most people the reasons come later. I was not reasoned into atheism any more than I expect you were reasoned into Christianity. Atheism begins when you ask questions that faith cannot answer.

Quote:Will you list things for me, please? Point me to an article? Or a book?

GWG's Resource Thread

And a quick video (hour and 40 minutes, sorry) by a Christian on the history of your scripture.




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01-05-2017, 08:57 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
(01-05-2017 08:49 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(01-05-2017 08:43 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  While Jenny has pointed out the excellent point about geography and culture.

Jenny and I both Wink

Frankly, to me this is the strongest argument in favour of "it's all bunk". What kind of a god monstrosity will let your eternal fate be decided by pure geographical coincidence...

And yeah, no offence really taken, it's just, the phrasing rubbed me the wrong way... then again, I might've been infesting the forum today, seeking whom I may devour Rolleyes

Glad none was taken, it was difficult to figure out a different way to phrase it. And while it's one of the simplest counter-apologetics, I think that it's one of the most effective for that reason. Even without leaving Christianity for examples like being a Muslim in the Middle East, or Hindu in India, etc. I grew up in a heavily Baptist area and grew up as a Baptist, eventually leaving that for another denomination. A good friend was born in Wyoming in a heavily Mormon area and is still a Mormon.

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01-05-2017, 09:13 PM
RE: Why should I be an atheist?
You need to come to your own conclusions, I'm not going to try and convince you because that makes me as bad as those Tele evangelists pimping out their particular brand of death cult.
I would prefer to convince you to think for yourself and weigh up the evidence as objectively as possible, if you can do this then pretty soon you will see for yourself how little sense any religion or belief in supernatural beings actually makes.
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