Why should a deity exist?
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14-02-2017, 01:24 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(14-02-2017 01:04 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  What the hell is a deity? I've rarely ever had a coherent answer.

What separates a deity from an arbitrarily powerful non-deity? If it's just to do with whether they have created a reality, then that means we would also be deities if our computer simulations manifested somehow.

Seriously. I don't get what the word is supposed to mean. And I don't get why being extremely powerful with respect to a created reality would mean you were just as powerful outside of it. Again, a computer programmer can manipulate his simulation pretty much any way he pleases. He can "know" all about it too. But these powers do not translate to his own reality.

If you want to have a fun exercise in going nowhere fast, ask a theist to provide a meaningful (i.e. falsifiable) definition for their god. Hold fast, and don't let them move beyond that; keep hammering the point home, that the only meaningful definition is a falsifiable one. A god outside of space and time is as meaningless as a doughnut outside of space and time. No point in having a debate over the imaginary, so you need a meaningful (i.e. falsifiable, therefore not supernatural) definition as the first step. Welcome to ignosticism (the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "god" has no unambiguous definition).

Stick to that point until they finally come to realize just how little thought they put into their god concept before you challenged it.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...utionKills

^ Case in point ^

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14-02-2017, 02:23 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
Absolutely, I've taken the position of ignosticism for quite some time now. I've previously asked theists to define "God", and the discussion has gone on for 30+ pages without them managing to do this. I don't think many people are used to thinking about it.

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14-02-2017, 02:25 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
I have a video I did about "outside space and time", if you guys are interested. I don't want to bombard or spam you all. I have lots of videos I can share Smile

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14-02-2017, 02:32 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
mordant Wrote:Compassion is not just pity for suffering, it is forbearance for human frailty and the humility to realize you suck as much as everyone else.
When I used word "compassion" I meant "pity for suffering". That is why I said " if there is no suffering there is no compassion".
mordant Wrote:You are so inured to human suffering that you have a failure of imagination that makes you think it is the only path to personal growth and development -- that either you have to suffer, and/or extend yourself to others who are suffering, as a necessary ingredient towards developing personal virtue.
Not at all. I believe that I have to do all that is in my power to be as much happy as possible and to avoid any un-necessary suffering. That is why I have to fight pain, illness, evil.

May be if I tell you a little more about Doctrine that I believe you will understand better why it is very important to experience suffering.
Here it is:

I suffer because suffering is something that always existed, exists and will always exist. In other words there was no time when there was no suffering or it won't be time when it won't be suffering. My ancestors Adam and Eve chose to become like Gods so they could KNOW what Gods know - not only pleasure but pain also. Not only joy but suffering also.
I suffer so I can become like Gods knowing not only good but evil also.
If God doesn't know what suffering/pain(something that exists) is then what kind of God is He?

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14-02-2017, 02:39 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(14-02-2017 02:23 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Absolutely, I've taken the position of ignosticism for quite some time now. I've previously asked theists to define "God", and the discussion has gone on for 30+ pages without them managing to do this. I don't think many people are used to thinking about it.
Ok, I can answer in a few sentences.

God is intelligent, immortal, glorified, resurrected Man.
He is perfect Man, meaning He is free from any sin(He is righteous).

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14-02-2017, 02:45 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(14-02-2017 02:23 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Absolutely, I've taken the position of ignosticism for quite some time now. I've previously asked theists to define "God", and the discussion has gone on for 30+ pages without them managing to do this. I don't think many people are used to thinking about it.

Indeed, they most certainly are not used to thinking about it; which is in and of itself a very ghastly realization and admission on their part.

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14-02-2017, 02:47 AM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2017 02:50 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(14-02-2017 02:39 AM)Alla Wrote:  Ok, I can answer in a few sentences.

God is intelligent, immortal, glorified, resurrected Man.
He is perfect Man, meaning He is free from any sin(He is righteous).

Define 'sin'.

Present evidence for the objective existence of 'sin'.

Until you can do both, then 'sin' itself is meaningless because it's unfalsifiable; and using that as part of the definition of your god concept makes it meaningless as well.

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14-02-2017, 03:10 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
So... what was God before it died? Just a man? How did it have the power to make everything?

How can you test if something is immortal?

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14-02-2017, 06:13 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(14-02-2017 02:25 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  I have a video I did about "outside space and time", if you guys are interested. I don't want to bombard or spam you all. I have lots of videos I can share Smile

I don't mind, it sure beats the mindless drivel from Alla.

I understand that "Outside of space and time" = outside of falsifiability.

"Outside of space and time" can also mean not in this universe, which means it doesn't exist.

So using the phrase "outside of space and time" is just a way of saying something doesn't exist and there is no evidence for it's existence.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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14-02-2017, 09:36 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
Robvalue Wrote:So... what was God before it died? Just a man?
God of heaven and this Earth was a mortal man once. This is according to His prophets. But not just a mortal man like us. He had only one mortal parent - his mother. His Father is another immortal glorified Man.
Robvalue Wrote:How did it have the power to make everything?
"Everything" is taking out of context. According to the prophets God created heaven and Earth and EVERYTHING that is IN IT.
Before God was mortal man He was pre-mortal Man. He had a power to create heaven and earth and EVERYTHGING that is IN IT. His Father gave Him this power. He taught Him how to create heaven and Earth and everything that is in it.
But God of heaven and this Earth did not create Himself, He didn't create light, He did not create matter.

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