Why should a deity exist?
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15-02-2017, 02:48 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(14-02-2017 11:06 AM)Alla Wrote:  Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Cool accent. Is it British?
So, about what you said on this video:
1)what you say makes perfect sense.
2)if we talk about God of heaven and this Earth then where did you read His claim that He is out of space and time?
3)you asked: " if you don't have evidence of God why do you believe in the first place?" Do you want to know my answer?
4) Why are you angry? Or what makes you angry?

No probs Smile Thank you! Yep, I'm British. Someone please tell my wife it's cool Tongue

1) Great! Thanks for the feedback Smile

2) It's a claim I've heard from many theists of all different types. I appreciate not every theist makes the same claims about God. (That's my basis of ignosticism.)

3) Sure, please go ahead!

4) I'm not angry. "The angry atheist" was a persona I was trying out, when I was seeing if I could come up with a good gimmick for YouTube. I also tried "the married atheist", before just sticking to being robvalue.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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15-02-2017, 02:57 AM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2017 05:54 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(14-02-2017 11:12 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  God's on Kolob, right?Facepalm

God is wherever they need to hide him.

God used to be on top of the mountain, until we scaled the summit and found no one there.

God used to be above the firmament supported by the four corners of the Earth, until we learned the world was corner-less and the firmament nonexistent.

God used to be up in the sky above the clouds, until we conquered flight and even managed to escape the bounds of our own planet.

Now god is beyond space and time, hidden away beyond the perceptible universe. Because every time we gave god a new home, we found it empty when we eventually got there. Drinking Beverage

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15-02-2017, 03:02 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(15-02-2017 02:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Now god is beyond space a time, hidden away beyond the perceptible universe. Because every time we gave god a new home, we found it empty when we eventually got there. Drinking Beverage

At least if he's outside of space and time he's safe from investigation Tongue

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-02-2017, 03:05 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
He sure is the all time hide-and-seek champion.

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15-02-2017, 03:20 AM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(15-02-2017 02:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(14-02-2017 11:12 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  God's on Kolob, right?Facepalm

God is wherever they need to hide him.

God used to be on top of the mountain, until we scaled the summit and found no one there.

God used to be above the firmament supported by the four corners of the Earth, until we learned the world was corner-less and the firmament nonexistent.

God used to be up in the sky above the clouds, until we conquered flight and even managed to escape the bounds of our own planet.

Now god is beyond space a time, hidden away beyond the perceptible universe. Because every time we gave god a new home, we found it empty when we eventually got there. Drinking Beverage

[Image: god-is-a-ninja_o_1875999.jpg]

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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15-02-2017, 12:50 PM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2017 12:55 PM by Alla.)
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(15-02-2017 02:48 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  
(14-02-2017 11:06 AM)Alla Wrote:  Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Cool accent. Is it British?
So, about what you said on this video:
1)what you say makes perfect sense.
2)if we talk about God of heaven and this Earth then where did you read His claim that He is out of space and time?
3)you asked: " if you don't have evidence of God why do you believe in the first place?" Do you want to know my answer?
4) Why are you angry? Or what makes you angry?

No probs Smile Thank you! Yep, I'm British. Someone please tell my wife it's cool Tongue

1) Great! Thanks for the feedback Smile

2) It's a claim I've heard from many theists of all different types. I appreciate not every theist makes the same claims about God. (That's my basis of ignosticism.)

3) Sure, please go ahead!

4) I'm not angry. "The angry atheist" was a persona I was trying out, when I was seeing if I could come up with a good gimmick for YouTube. I also tried "the married atheist", before just sticking to being robvalue.

1)
Tell your wife I said this. Your accent is cool. I could say something else but that would be flirting with you.
I understood that when "angry you" is punching poor stuffed animal it is an act/comedy. I actually liked it. Like you said, to be angry at God makes no sense to atheist. It is the same as to be angry at a toy. I asked just in case. As they say in Ukraine and in Russia: every joke(comedy) has a fraction of truth.
I hate to share my testimony with atheist especially on this forum but I did it once here. So, I will do it again but in a very short version.
I was raised in atheist society. My father and my grandfather were true blue atheists. I was true blue atheist. But one day I was in front of the art. There was face of Jesus Christ.
Suddenly out of blue something happened. I felt that I was filled with some kind of ...umm... power? energy? some kind of substance? I can't tell/explain.
Instantly I had extremely strong conviction that He is real, He lives. Conviction was so strong that I could easily say that "I know" instead of "I believe"
It was like a shock to me, a revelation, I said to myself: He is real, and I love Him". And then:"Oh, I love Him!" It was a surprise(like a revelation) "I love Him????!"
I felt joy, I felt incredible, I can not describe the feeling.
So, this is how in a first place this former atheist suddenly was convinced that Christ was real.
No man could convince me to believe in God. No man. It was not possible. I assume the same is with you.
But something definitely convinced me. I also remember telling myself: "Ok, if Jesus Christ is real then God also must be real."
End of story and the beginning of long, long new journey.

2)married atheist?! meaning "married to a believer"? what's the story?

English is my second language.
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SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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15-02-2017, 01:34 PM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2017 06:09 PM by mordant.)
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(15-02-2017 12:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  I was raised in atheist society. My father and my grandfather were true blue atheists. I was true blue atheist.
The only thing that defines an atheist is that they lack beliefs in gods. In your case this appears to be based on the "atheist society" in which you were raised, rather than a considered lack of belief, given that it evaporated on contact with a depiction of the face of Christ and your emotional response to it.

If I were to ask you why you were an atheist I suspect you would not have philosophical or logical reasons that you would tick off, because you did not change your views about the existence of gods for philosophical or logical reasons. Indeed, you leapt directly to a belief in a SPECIFIC god, the Christian one, based on nothing more than that a painting depicting Jesus was pleasing to you. Which suggests to me that a repressed and/or secondary influence in your upbringing was Christian, and/or that a Christian influence rushed into the epistemological void where your default atheistic belief resided.

By contrast I was born into theism, and very nearly born into fundamentalist evangelical Christianity, and found them to be void of actual meaning, which caused me to re-examine my beliefs, consider alternatives, and arrive at my current knowledge claims and belief positions, which happen to be atheistic.

I also suspect you have different associations with the term "atheism" than I do, given that, rather than a position voluntarily arrived at after due consideration, it was an assumption that was thrust upon you on pain of various social sanctions in the "atheistic society" you grew up in. For me, on the other hand, it is simply an outcome of me losing the willingness to afford belief to things unless they can be substantiated. The existence of invisible beings and realms being but one of those things.
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15-02-2017, 02:35 PM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(15-02-2017 12:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  But one day I was in front of the art. There was face of Jesus Christ.
Suddenly out of blue something happened. I felt that I was filled with some kind of ...umm... power? energy? some kind of substance? I can't tell/explain. [...]

I can't presume to deny that this actually happened Alla, but from my perspective as a lifelong atheist, I'd put it down to self-delusion possibly precipitated by some specificity of the surrounding environment, or maybe a vulnerable, anxious or depressive state of mind.

It's interesting that—considering that you were an atheist at that time—you now say you couldn't explain it. Why did your logic desert you? And why would a purported god suddenly decide to invade the body of a disbeliever, rather than reinforcing the faith of a believer?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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15-02-2017, 02:46 PM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(15-02-2017 12:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Suddenly out of blue something happened. I felt that I was filled with some kind of ...umm... power? energy? some kind of substance? I can't tell/explain.

Good for you.
How is it in any way relevant to someone else if you are emotionally labile and delusional ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-02-2017, 03:02 PM
RE: Why should a deity exist?
(15-02-2017 12:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(15-02-2017 02:48 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  No probs Smile Thank you! Yep, I'm British. Someone please tell my wife it's cool Tongue

1) Great! Thanks for the feedback Smile

2) It's a claim I've heard from many theists of all different types. I appreciate not every theist makes the same claims about God. (That's my basis of ignosticism.)

3) Sure, please go ahead!

4) I'm not angry. "The angry atheist" was a persona I was trying out, when I was seeing if I could come up with a good gimmick for YouTube. I also tried "the married atheist", before just sticking to being robvalue.

1)
Tell your wife I said this. Your accent is cool. I could say something else but that would be flirting with you.
I understood that when "angry you" is punching poor stuffed animal it is an act/comedy. I actually liked it. Like you said, to be angry at God makes no sense to atheist. It is the same as to be angry at a toy. I asked just in case. As they say in Ukraine and in Russia: every joke(comedy) has a fraction of truth.
I hate to share my testimony with atheist especially on this forum but I did it once here. So, I will do it again but in a very short version.
I was raised in atheist society. My father and my grandfather were true blue atheists. I was true blue atheist. But one day I was in front of the art. There was face of Jesus Christ.
Suddenly out of blue something happened. I felt that I was filled with some kind of ...umm... power? energy? some kind of substance? I can't tell/explain.
Instantly I had extremely strong conviction that He is real, He lives. Conviction was so strong that I could easily say that "I know" instead of "I believe"
It was like a shock to me, a revelation, I said to myself: He is real, and I love Him". And then:"Oh, I love Him!" It was a surprise(like a revelation) "I love Him????!"
I felt joy, I felt incredible, I can not describe the feeling.
So, this is how in a first place this former atheist suddenly was convinced that Christ was real.
No man could convince me to believe in God. No man. It was not possible. I assume the same is with you.
But something definitely convinced me. I also remember telling myself: "Ok, if Jesus Christ is real then God also must be real."
End of story and the beginning of long, long new journey.

2)married atheist?! meaning "married to a believer"? what's the story?

Thank you for sharing your story Smile It sounds like a very powerful experience indeed. I've never had anything quite like that.

Hehe no, I'm married to another atheist. It's just a running joke I had developed where I continually claimed to be married, offering suspicious circumstantial evidence, while my wife never actually shows up in my videos.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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