Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
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24-06-2012, 11:37 PM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(24-06-2012 11:28 PM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  
(24-06-2012 11:18 PM)Likos02 Wrote:  
What's funny is. as a JW. I/they taught that Dec 25was pagan. and it adopted from pre christ times. This is why they don't celebrate christmas. ONly they draw the line there. The JWs dont' really realize how much paganism and per-medeterreanian influenced present day christ.



True, but most religions are based off other ones....the cycle just repeats itself.

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25-06-2012, 02:39 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(24-06-2012 09:10 PM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  Yes.

I understand that it has bad things about it. But religion has been here since the dawn of man hasn't it? And guess what, we r still here.s

I just had an outburst to my Mom and Dad. I laid it down, I let them know the bible was wrong and full of contradictions and shared that it has something in common with the quran, book of mormon and every other holy book-it's written by men claimed to be inspired by god....And now what? I feel hurt.

As I saw my mother cry. I knew. ....she was telling herself that 'satan had gottn a hold of him.' But deep down she knew. She knew I was right. She couldn't accept that she would never see her dad again. And all other dead loved ones.


IDK. I may have just lost my parents..... how come i just can't keep my mouth shut and let them have it?

Because the truth sometimes has to be upheld for it own sake.
There is a difference between going out of your way to attack old people who have nothing left but hope of an afterlife, and defending your right to not believe it or teach it to your kids. Let the old folks believe what they want for themselves, but not a chance that I'm going to roll over and let them set the standard for truth. I've warned my mother-in-law more than once about talking religion to my kid. She's backed off now, but I know she gets in her diggs. I just keep reinforcing my childs knowledge of reality. If she is in "pain" because she believe I'm taking my kid straight to hell with me then she can go fuck herself. Zero compromise with that.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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25-06-2012, 03:38 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(24-06-2012 09:10 PM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  As I saw my mother cry. I knew. ....she was telling herself that 'satan had gottn a hold of him.' But deep down she knew. She knew I was right. She couldn't accept that she would never see her dad again. And all other dead loved ones.


IDK. I may have just lost my parents..... how come i just can't keep my mouth shut and let them have it?
It comes down to this.

You might have a hard time being a person that you simply don't agree with. Going to place hearing things you know are ludicrous, rife with contradictions, biases, and fallacies. Then one day, they say some kind of brain dead thing like "GAWD just blessed me with five dollars I found on a bench"

Then out comes the all the suppressed frustration in huge explosion. I know that feeling.

Luckily I since my parents split and remarried I had a practice family. The second time I came out was easier, but the step Mom thought I was taken over by the devil.

That took a long time to show her I wasn't taken over by the devil. hahahahaha

It's like trying to wake them up out of a bad dream, and when they do they hug you knowing that it's ok.

It takes a while for all of that to comeback together. Be strong.

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25-06-2012, 03:56 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
This is kinda like saying, why take away their crack pipe? They ain't hurting nobody. But sure they are. Just by subscribing to a religion, they are validating a religion; and the more in the center validating themselves, the more at the fringe seeking to invalidate others.

And this "coping mechanism" ain't coping with anything. It is deferring.

Religion just sux. Should be stomped like a cockroach.

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25-06-2012, 05:06 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(25-06-2012 03:56 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  This is kinda like saying, why take away their crack pipe? They ain't hurting nobody. But sure they are. Just by subscribing to a religion, they are validating a religion; and the more in the center validating themselves, the more at the fringe seeking to invalidate others.

And this "coping mechanism" ain't coping with anything. It is deferring.

Religion just sux. Should be stomped like a cockroach.
You are right, Johnny, I just don't like seeing people sad or hurt but reality is definitely better Yes

Damn my over stimulated empathy centre! Bastard Dodgy

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25-06-2012, 05:12 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(25-06-2012 05:06 AM)aurora Wrote:  
(25-06-2012 03:56 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  This is kinda like saying, why take away their crack pipe? They ain't hurting nobody. But sure they are. Just by subscribing to a religion, they are validating a religion; and the more in the center validating themselves, the more at the fringe seeking to invalidate others.

And this "coping mechanism" ain't coping with anything. It is deferring.

Religion just sux. Should be stomped like a cockroach.
You are right, Johnny, I just don't like seeing people sad or hurt but reality is definitely better Yes

Damn my over stimulated empathy centre! Bastard Dodgy
The only problem is the crack pipe and the crack, is in their imaginations.

Anybody in here good at killing imaginations?

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25-06-2012, 05:22 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(25-06-2012 05:12 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Anybody in here good at killing imaginations?

Can't kill an idea, you can only replace it with a similar idea. That's why these memes propagate.

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25-06-2012, 05:26 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(25-06-2012 05:22 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(25-06-2012 05:12 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Anybody in here good at killing imaginations?

Can't kill an idea, you can only replace it with a similar idea. That's why these memes propagate.
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25-06-2012, 07:06 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
I don't think we want to take away people's coping mechanism, but rather, their need for a coping mechanism. If you want to eradicate religion, you don't outlaw it or ban it, and you take away the reason it's needed.

My grandmother believes that when she dies, she will be reunited with her husband and dead sons. And we say: Let her believe that. She is a 90 year old woman, let her take solace in that. She has nothing else to live for.
Why should anyone have nothing else to live for? Isn't that the bigger problem here? Shouldn't a 90-year-old woman with so much wisdom and experience have more to look forward to, and to keep her going, than the false promise of seeing her sons again?

And it goes both ways. As long as people have these coping mechanisms, what's going to push them to get up and find real meaning, real answers, real reasons to go on living. How can we as a species focus on real problems and real evils if we keep making up imaginary ones.
If we as a species had our priorities straight, we'd have colonised space, cured aging, prevented diseases and birth defects. Instead we are worrying about hurting the feelings of people who believe an invisible man in the sky doesn't like it when they touch themselves. It's time for the human race to grow up already.

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
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25-06-2012, 01:28 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2012 01:35 PM by Logisch.)
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
I was having a similar conversation with AtotheTheist. I was talking to a theist the other day (with AtotheTheist) over chat and discussing religion. It basically came down to:

- I'd be sad without religion
- I'm depressed without it
- I may be suicidal without it

While he made the case of, "Would you rather they live a lie?" I brought up the point that religion essentially is a cult, or support system. If you really look at it, you are stripping out a previous support system and inserting a new one. If you break apart their support system they NEED something else, otherwise, the reasons above of a theist may very well end up happening.

I hate seeing people hurt, and perhaps like Aurora, my empathy is far too great, maybe even more than it should be. I suppose I'm not sure what "too much" and "not enough" would be for empathy, but I feel it is important to have. Regardless, I think it's important to recognize to people who maybe perhaps curious about things aside from religion and introduce them to potential support systems first before trying to bring their world down. Some people simply cannot emotionally handle it. I'm all for getting people to see reality for reality. I just think that if debating people or even talking to them about their religion is important, it is also just as important to identify the real reason for their believing. As mentioned above, for many, it is a crutch. Kick it out from under them, and they'll fall rock hard. While some would way, "Oh but they'll get back up and be fine." some people just cannot handle the overwhelming stress, some do become suicidal, some do horrible things and some have mental break downs. I know people who have gone through such things, and it pains me to see it. For many people who are of an older generation, they may be so indoctrinated and so full of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance they may never be interested or capable of deconverting.

It was a depressing and difficult thing to cope with when I started re-evaluating everything I previously knew and understood. Atheism to me is simply a stance on one subject of many things in life and in itself offers no support system. It isn't an ideology or a belief, it's a lack of belief, that's all I see it as. But in order for me to have accepted that lack of belief, abandoning everything I previously believed, I had to go back and look at everything with very skeptical eyes and mind, looking at things in a new way. I had to figure out how to find what a good support system was, how things felt, and how to deal with the sometimes cold blunt harsh reality of things. It definitely wasn't easy, and in some ways a real world rocker.

I'm better for it now I feel. Granted, I still deal with depression, but that has little to nothing to do with atheism, and more to do with chemical imbalances in my body and little to no social interaction in real life. I can't go pray to a god for that. I have to deal with it myself. These are the things that make it difficult when you were used to praying, pleading and begging for mercy prior. "If I pray hard enough maybe for just a moment that dude in the sky will care about my tiny life among the billions to help me, just maybe.... no answer? Well, he obviously has a plan." No plans here. Just reality.

Could be my limbic system talking too.
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