Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
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25-06-2012, 08:11 PM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
My father's a pastor, so as an atheist, of course we disagree. I respect his privacy and try to tread lightly on controversial subjects, and he does the same with me. We agree to disagree.

But the main question -- why take away religion -- is not so hard to answer. When gay marriage was approved by the state congress in my state of Maine, it was petitioned against, put up for a vote, and shot down. I haven't encountered a non-religious person who is against gay marriage... it would seem from my experience that the only motivations to discriminate against gays are religious. There's also the fight against abortion's legality, the teaching of evolution, prostitution (although sadly there's resistance to that from the non-religious, too).

People like my dad are ruining lives through pushing their fundamentalist agenda. But out of fairness, I let him keep doing it. Besides, there's little hope for change there anyway.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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25-06-2012, 09:31 PM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(24-06-2012 09:41 PM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  Well, here's the kicker. They are (as I was once was) Jehovah's Witnesses. They go door to door preaching (what they think) is the accurate knowledge. They don't get up early in the morning and knock on your door to piss you off. They do it becuz they are sincere and believe it's what god/Jehovah/Yahweh wants.



However, the 'Society' ( also known as the faithful and discreet slave...it's a bible reference) teaches not to listen to worldly or anything opposing their viewpoints. And if they do they are to SHUN them. And of course they back this up with scriptural reference. That means shun them even if they are family......

...Here, watch this....it's important. I know you prob dont have 15 minutes. But please watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4egOV6Il8...plpp_video
OK....I had sympathy for your mother until you revealed she was a Jehovah's Witness. Here is another person's exhibit of disappointing his mother:
http://davetrash.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/the-letter/

[Image: img_9673.jpg?w=682&h=1024]

[Image: img_9674-e1340037094154.jpg?w=682&h=1024]



This is disgusting. It is depraved and evil. A faith that produces this is vile and does not deserve our respect. If your parents need a crutch, find them a better one than the twisted brain scrambling cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
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30-06-2012, 12:27 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(25-06-2012 03:56 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  This is kinda like saying, why take away their crack pipe? They ain't hurting nobody. But sure they are. Just by subscribing to a religion, they are validating a religion; and the more in the center validating themselves, the more at the fringe seeking to invalidate others.

And this "coping mechanism" ain't coping with anything. It is deferring.

Religion just sux. Should be stomped like a cockroach.
But they (for the most part) are not.
(25-06-2012 09:31 PM)BryanS Wrote:  
(24-06-2012 09:41 PM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  Well, here's the kicker. They are (as I was once was) Jehovah's Witnesses. They go door to door preaching (what they think) is the accurate knowledge. They don't get up early in the morning and knock on your door to piss you off. They do it becuz they are sincere and believe it's what god/Jehovah/Yahweh wants.



However, the 'Society' ( also known as the faithful and discreet slave...it's a bible reference) teaches not to listen to worldly or anything opposing their viewpoints. And if they do they are to SHUN them. And of course they back this up with scriptural reference. That means shun them even if they are family......

...Here, watch this....it's important. I know you prob dont have 15 minutes. But please watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4egOV6Il8...plpp_video
OK....I had sympathy for your mother until you revealed she was a Jehovah's Witness. Here is another person's exhibit of disappointing his mother:
http://davetrash.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/the-letter/

[Image: img_9673.jpg?w=682&h=1024]

[Image: img_9674-e1340037094154.jpg?w=682&h=1024]



This is disgusting. It is depraved and evil. A faith that produces this is vile and does not deserve our respect. If your parents need a crutch, find them a better one than the twisted brain scrambling cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
My mother is just a victim of what most other people on the planet are victim of......indoctrination.












The bottom line for me is. Why bitch about christianity? The same god they worshiped once condoned stoning children. They don't do that anymore. let them say christ changed all that shit and scapegoat all they want. the bottom line is, that is evolution whether they see is or not.

Do you actually understand evolution or not? It took thousands, maybe millions of years for the homo sapiens to evolve and within that time they invented religion. And now we just want to 'shut it off.'

Give me a break. That's not logical. We should be thankful it's advanced as much as it has/is.

Forget Jesus. Stars died so you could live.-Lawrence Krauss

For god loved the world so much he tortured his only begotten son, gave him a 3 day nap only to wake up in ultimate awesomeness and called it a sacrifice.
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30-06-2012, 04:02 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(30-06-2012 12:27 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  
(25-06-2012 03:56 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  This is kinda like saying, why take away their crack pipe? They ain't hurting nobody. But sure they are. Just by subscribing to a religion, they are validating a religion; and the more in the center validating themselves, the more at the fringe seeking to invalidate others.

And this "coping mechanism" ain't coping with anything. It is deferring.

Religion just sux. Should be stomped like a cockroach.
But they (for the most part) are not.
(25-06-2012 09:31 PM)BryanS Wrote:  OK....I had sympathy for your mother until you revealed she was a Jehovah's Witness. Here is another person's exhibit of disappointing his mother:
http://davetrash.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/the-letter/

[Image: img_9673.jpg?w=682&h=1024]

[Image: img_9674-e1340037094154.jpg?w=682&h=1024]



This is disgusting. It is depraved and evil. A faith that produces this is vile and does not deserve our respect. If your parents need a crutch, find them a better one than the twisted brain scrambling cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
My mother is just a victim of what most other people on the planet are victim of......indoctrination.












The bottom line for me is. Why bitch about christianity? The same god they worshiped once condoned stoning children. They don't do that anymore. let them say christ changed all that shit and scapegoat all they want. the bottom line is, that is evolution whether they see is or not.

Do you actually understand evolution or not? It took thousands, maybe millions of years for the homo sapiens to evolve and within that time they invented religion. And now we just want to 'shut it off.'

Give me a break. That's not logical. We should be thankful it's advanced as much as it has/is.
The fact remains though that whilst you may not hear of many Christians stoning children to death there are those who solely on the basis of their own understanding of their religion will do terrible things that range from the murdering of their child who they fear is the anti christ to something relatively benign like the mutilation of the genitalia. These actions which are undertaken because of their faith necessarily happen because of their own strongly held convictions and whilst they may beleive their neighbour down the street worships God in the wrong way the fact that they worship the same God reinforces the delusion.

You don't have to be a believer doing anything directly wrong to be part of the problem because in the shelter of the moderate masses the more extreme forms of a religion find their protection. I agree that I don't ever see religion entirely going away - at least not until there is such a time where all the sufferings and flaws of human existence are solved. However just because it's impossible to eradicate something that is demonstrably harmful doesn't mean that measures shouldn't be taken to mitigate it's effects - in this case the reduction of the faithful has the positive result of, however marginally, sapping the numbers of a particular faith. On a macro level that might be inconsequential but the effects that one new unbeliever can have on those that surround them can have much bigger results.

We should not be thankful that it has "advanced so far" rather we should be horrified at how far it has still to go. That is just may opinion on the matter Undecided.

"If a man would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would follow strictly the teachings of the New, he would be insane." - Robert Green Ingersoll
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30-06-2012, 04:11 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
I really don't care if someone believes in a God. Hell, my girlfriend's Pagan. I just really don't give a flying fuck.

I do care if you're going to abuse your religion, make other people in your faith suffer, be an ass, emotionally or physically harm others. Same goes for my fellow atheists, if someone doesn't need a smack down, don't give them one.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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30-06-2012, 04:15 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(30-06-2012 04:11 AM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I really don't care if someone believes in a God. Hell, my girlfriend's Pagan. I just really don't give a flying fuck.

I do care if you're going to abuse your religion, make other people in your faith suffer, be an ass, emotionally or physically harm others. Same goes for my fellow atheists, if someone doesn't need a smack down, don't give them one.
I care. If people believe some silly shit, they can be made to believe other silly shit; they can be easily manipulated. And the fact that people believe it reinforces the beliefs of those who do evil in its name.

It matters that people believe stupid things, that they are wrong-headed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-06-2012, 04:16 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(30-06-2012 04:11 AM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I really don't care if someone believes in a God. Hell, my girlfriend's Pagan. I just really don't give a flying fuck.

I do care if you're going to abuse your religion, make other people in your faith suffer, be an ass, emotionally or physically harm others. Same goes for my fellow atheists, if someone doesn't need a smack down, don't give them one.
What about the argument that just by being part of a faith you are indirectly contributing to the problem even without harboring any malicious intent?

I don't personally think it's possible for someone to have beliefs that do not effect anyone around them so long as they are able to communicate or perform actions around another human being Unsure.

"If a man would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would follow strictly the teachings of the New, he would be insane." - Robert Green Ingersoll
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30-06-2012, 04:36 AM
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
(30-06-2012 04:16 AM)Goose Springsteen Wrote:  
(30-06-2012 04:11 AM)Red Tornado Wrote:  I really don't care if someone believes in a God. Hell, my girlfriend's Pagan. I just really don't give a flying fuck.

I do care if you're going to abuse your religion, make other people in your faith suffer, be an ass, emotionally or physically harm others. Same goes for my fellow atheists, if someone doesn't need a smack down, don't give them one.
What about the argument that just by being part of a faith you are indirectly contributing to the problem even without harboring any malicious intent?

I don't personally think it's possible for someone to have beliefs that do not effect anyone around them so long as they are able to communicate or perform actions around another human being Unsure.


Mm, I'm assuming you're reffering to the "saftey in numbers" thing, where it protects the douchebags? Then that's a bad cause out of it, however it shouldn't be blamed on the people doing no harm.

I'm not sure about that, people who are very calm and secure in their faith don't bother me. We talk about religion sometimes but it's not malicious. Their faith doesn't bother me, their lack of faith doesn't bother them.

Quote: care. If people believe some silly shit, they can be made to believe other silly shit; they can be easily manipulated. And the fact that people believe it reinforces the beliefs of those who do evil in its name.

It matters that people believe stupid things, that they are wrong-headed.


Not all religious people are easily manipulated though, some are very intellegent and do think in a rational mannor. If someone choses to accept something, without looking at the evidence well it's not really my problem. With internet and other educational systems becomming more avaliable it's up to the individual to take charge of what they know. Eliminating the "other options" isn't a good idea, because your opinion may not be the right thing. (I'm reffering to the "silly shit" although I do agree to what I'm assuming you're reffering to Christanity, it can be very silly.)

If you really have a problem with it, just debunk the arguments that sold them on it, make people see what got them hooked on something is wrong.

I'm not saying that taking advantage of the ignorant is right, I'm just saying that the individual should be able to decide on their faith, most likely they have the tools to do so, so I really don't see it as my problem, I see it as their life and their problem.

Bury me with my guns on, so when I reach the other side - I can show him what it feels like to die.
Bury me with my guns on, so when I'm cast out of the sky, I can shoot the devil right between the eyes.
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30-06-2012, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 30-06-2012 06:20 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Why take away their religion/coping mechanism?
It surprises me that Jehovas Witnesses are like that wherever you come from. In Germany, at the very least, they are friendly, tolerant and respect the law. They will eventually visit you once a year, however, if you tell them that you do not wish to be visited again, they will respect that choice no matter what. They've visited us for the first time about 9 years ago and my mother told them not to come to our house again. Up until now, they've respected that decision.

I once met a JW on my way to school and we talked about our views on religion. It was quite interesting. Of course, their belief is just as illogical and irrational as any other, but I can tolerate them without a doubt because they are able to tolerate the choices of others. But as I've said, this is just the situation in my country, JW are supposedly a lot different in, for example, the U.S.A. Then again, in my entire life I've never seen a theist holding a sign saying "God Hates Fags" or something similar in Germany.

I'd like to see every religion abandoned, but that is an utopic wish. It's never going to happen. We may be able to decrease the number of religious people, but there are always going to be those who deny facts and scientific evidence so that they can hold on to their ridiculous beliefs.

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