Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
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16-06-2017, 05:01 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
The whole "anchor babies" thing is a complete non-starter.

Birthright citizenship is enshrined in the constitution, the 14th amendment, ratified July 1868.

The text reads:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Pretty straightforward. If you're born in the US (including American military bases overseas and places like US embassies, etc.) you're a US citizen, regardless of who your parents are, when you arrived, etc. Full stop.
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16-06-2017, 05:18 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
(16-06-2017 10:34 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(16-06-2017 10:13 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  The idea of a wall especially appeals to Republicans who realize they have a demographics problem with voters in the near future. They are rightfully afraid that new immigrants will more likely vote for Democrats. Instead of widening their appeal, they are unrealistically doubling down on their base of support, so it's a losing strategy in the long run. It's just another way Republicans are denying reality.

Not really. I've come to the conclusion that most conservative types have realized that the demographic game is lost. The democrats have won that battle. Most conservatives I know, and from what I've seen on other forums, social media etc, is that they all know its just a matter of time before they will have to fight to take the country back. We have a Republican congress and president, and a 5-4 conservative majority on the supreme court, and gun sales are still breaking records. Ammo is still being sold at record pace.

I fear that one side thinks the battle for America will be fought only with votes. Surely the other side is preparing for a different kind of fight. I have said it many times on this forum. One day soon the democrats will have the numbers to win a majority across the country. And they will do something stupid with that majority. Something that pushes the red blooded patriot American over the line. I hope it happens after I'm dead and gone. But if you pay attention to what conservatives are really saying, and watch their actions behind the scenes, you'll see what I'm saying is true.

Maybe it's cultural differences making me not understand, but did you just say you think that your patriots, if they don't get their way, will become terrorists and actively seek to undermine by force of arms the democratic basis on which forms the foundation of the subject of their patriotism?

I think we may have different understandings of what patriots are.

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16-06-2017, 05:24 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
(16-06-2017 05:01 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  The whole "anchor babies" thing is a complete non-starter.

Birthright citizenship is enshrined in the constitution, the 14th amendment, ratified July 1868.

The text reads:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Pretty straightforward. If you're born in the US (including American military bases overseas and places like US embassies, etc.) you're a US citizen, regardless of who your parents are, when you arrived, etc. Full stop.

If your parents are US citizens (at least your mother), you are a citizen, no matter where you where born. Your parent(s) just register your birth at the local embassy. This is why Obama is a citizen. His mother was a citizen when he was born.
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16-06-2017, 05:28 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
(16-06-2017 05:24 PM)Fireball Wrote:  If your parents are US citizens (at least your mother), you are a citizen, no matter where you where born. Your parent(s) just register your birth at the local embassy. This is why Obama is a citizen. His mother was a citizen when he was born.

That's my understanding of it as well. I was originally referring to the whole "anchor babies" scenario and the push by some righties to deny constitutionally-guaranteed citizenship to children born in the US because their parents weren't born there/are visiting/are illegals/have a dark skin tone/speak a language different than English/etc etc etc.
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16-06-2017, 05:30 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
Quote:Surely the other side is preparing for a different kind of fight.

There is no "other side" shitwit. Do you really think that THIS:

[Image: 04282114-JohnBrownClubLarge.9cd7b47f.jpg]

would stand up to THIS?

[Image: ShowImage?id=781&t=635579658479030000]


The idiots would shit their pants, throw down their guns and run like fucking rabbits as soon as the cops showed up.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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16-06-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
(16-06-2017 05:18 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(16-06-2017 10:34 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Not really. I've come to the conclusion that most conservative types have realized that the demographic game is lost. The democrats have won that battle. Most conservatives I know, and from what I've seen on other forums, social media etc, is that they all know its just a matter of time before they will have to fight to take the country back. We have a Republican congress and president, and a 5-4 conservative majority on the supreme court, and gun sales are still breaking records. Ammo is still being sold at record pace.

I fear that one side thinks the battle for America will be fought only with votes. Surely the other side is preparing for a different kind of fight. I have said it many times on this forum. One day soon the democrats will have the numbers to win a majority across the country. And they will do something stupid with that majority. Something that pushes the red blooded patriot American over the line. I hope it happens after I'm dead and gone. But if you pay attention to what conservatives are really saying, and watch their actions behind the scenes, you'll see what I'm saying is true.

Maybe it's cultural differences making me not understand, but did you just say you think that your patriots, if they don't get their way, will become terrorists and actively seek to undermine by force of arms the democratic basis on which forms the foundation of the subject of their patriotism?

I think we may have different understandings of what patriots are.

Terrorism is a point of view. As I said in my scenario, it would take something majorly stupid to push it to that point. Something so big that it affects the conservative way of life and that the action is considered so un-American that the only option will be force. Something like a gun ban or something to do with perceived threat of religious freedom. Conservatives would consider those actions as a violation of inalienable rights and fight.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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16-06-2017, 07:40 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
A gun ban stands a celluloid dog in hell's chance of being enacted. Curbs on religious freedom? FFS, there's a church every where one looks. Perceived persecution is all I see.
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16-06-2017, 07:50 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
(16-06-2017 07:40 PM)Fireball Wrote:  A gun ban stands a celluloid dog in hell's chance of being enacted. Curbs on religious freedom? FFS, there's a church every where one looks. Perceived persecution is all I see.

Do you not believe that some day, with the changing demographics, we might see a liberal majority in the house, senate, presidency, supreme court, and around the country at the state level? With no chance of republicans gaining control again, they'd be free to act as Europe or Australia has in regard to guns.

The only thing that would MAYBE prevent them from that step is the fear of what the response would be. And fear the people the government should.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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16-06-2017, 08:30 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
(16-06-2017 07:50 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  And fear the people the government should.

According to Sun Tsu, a general who fear is own man is the sign of hte greatest type of incompetence.

According to Machiavelli, a leader who fears its people cannot effectively rule.

If a democratically elected governement is affraid of its own constituants, this means this governement no longer has the monopoly on legitimate violence; mobs or corporations and "lords" effectively hold power in such a situation. A governement should never fear its people. He should respect them and be the structure by wich society organise itself and its interests, achieve a compromise and enforce it to ultimatly produce a cohesive, cooperative harmonious social structure.

To me, the very proto-revolutionary idea that democratic governement should fear its constituant is extremely pernicious. A democratic governement is, in effect, the compromise between all of society constituant interests and ambitions. If the "compromise" should fear you, you are in effect asking that everybody should be affraid of you and you should be of everybody. It's a paranoiac and siege mentality that in no way prevent governemental overreach. When such a thing happens, the siege mentality as left the opposition divided, distrustful of one another and incapable of producing a cohesive, attractive social project that can competition with that proposed by the group in power.

America's negative relationship with power and authority, but also its glorification of individualism, strength and aggressivity is one of the reason behind many of its social problems from its high level of violence and criminality to its dichotomic foreign policy and high level of partisan politics best exampled in the current presidency.

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16-06-2017, 08:41 PM
RE: Why the Trump Wall Will Probably Never Be Built
Having had the unfortunate experience of being ensnared in concertina wire, how come nobody's talking about using that? 100 feet deep of that would be cheap and effective and easy enough to identify and repair breaches.

#sigh
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