Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
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12-04-2012, 04:40 AM
Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
So I'm a Zerg multiplayer user and I have a few gripes that are obvious to me every time I play a match. We have been completely fucked over in units.


Early Units


Terran get the Marine. An air and ground attack unit that can be upgraded to the point where they are still good in late game.
Protoss get the Stalker. An air and ground attack unit that also can be massed and blink upgraded to the point where they are unstoppable.
Zerg get the Zergling. Fun at first until you reach middle game and they become fodder for your other units. The Ling and the Roach are both ground attack only. Meaning any early air push will completely destroy you unless you can manage a 2 Queen micro. In order to get the Hydra, you need a Lair, then a Hydralisk Den, then lots of gas. And after the air attack is defeated, you are left with a squishy worthless units that's too slow and too fragile to be used for anything else.


Scouting

The Protoss get the always invisible Observer. Few people build anti-stealth until later in the game when cloaking appears, so Protoss basically get a free view of the enemy's build order.
Terran get a friggin Scan. With the click of a button, they can see anything that's going on anywhere on the map.
Zerg get Overlords... so incredibly slow that you are forced to upgrade speed if you want even a chance at seeing anything. Then once your new Overseer gets a glance and is immediately killed by all the ground/air enemy starting units, your supply cap drops.


Aoe Splash Damage


Terran can set 2 Tanks on high ground near their base in seige mode and pretty much destroy anything that comes near them.
Protoss can set 2 Colossi on high ground near their base and pretty much destroy pretty much anything that comes near them.
Zerg can set 2... uhhhhh... Spinecrawlers? Near their base... and pretty much kill one unit as they casually walk past.



Ultimate Ground Units


Once Terran break out mass Thors and use their ranged splash damage on air or ground units, it's pretty much over.
Once Protoss break out mass Archons and use their ranged splash damage on air or ground units, it's pretty much over.
Once Zerg break out mass Ultralisks and struggle to get a surround so that the lumbering giants can get within melee range on ground units only, utilizing only a few units at a time since the sheer size stops the others behind them from being able to join in... it's pretty much over for Zerg because meanwhile ALL the Thors and Archons have been ranging them down.


Ultimate Air Units


Protoss bust out the all-destroying power of the Carrier (better than Mothership IMO), destroying air and land units with the mass interceptors.
Terran bust out the all-destroying power of the Battlecruiser, destroying air and land units with it's lasers.
Zerg bust out the all-destroying power of the Brood Lords, which do rock, but can only attack ground units and are slow as balls.


Invisibility

Terran get Banshees, which can destroy your mineral line while cloaked before you can remedy by frantically trying to make Spore Crawlers.
Protoss get Dark Templar, which can destroy pretty much your entire base before you frantically make Spore Crawlers.
Zerg get... nothing. We have absolutely no invisibility. We get burrow. But since you can't attack from underground (don't you dare mention Infested Terran) and only 2 units are capable of even moving while burrowed, it's hardly a fair trade-off.



The Zerg are designed to be countered and beaten by the Terran and the Protoss... that's the entire point of Campaign mode. But at least give us a fighting chance in Multiplayer. Why don't I shut up and play Terran or Protoss instead? Because I don't like picking the easiest race like everyone else, I like picking the unique race and destroying the easier races. But Blizzard is making it so we don't even have a chance. The top 5 players in the world are all Terran, doesn't that say something?


I'm hoping Heart of the Swarm evens it out some, since it will be showcasing the powers of the Zerg in Campaign.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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12-04-2012, 01:49 PM
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
And ALSO...


Regeneration


Toss get shields that regenerate by themselves.
Terran have Medics and Medivacs for bio and SCVs for mech healing.
Zerg has.... burrow again. Which must be researched if you want it, is terrible, and only applies to 2 units again.


I'm gonna try Protoss for a while. It always seems like they have so much excess money that they spell out words with Pylons while warping in 20 units.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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12-04-2012, 03:25 PM
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
the Zerg are the bad guys
you don't want the bad guys to win

Observer

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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12-04-2012, 03:33 PM
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
I don't agree that the Zerg are underpowered. It just takes a different style compared to Terran and Protoss to become good with them. Here are some resources to help you become better with the race:

http://www.day9.tv/ - Where we learn to be a better gamer!
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0...ature=plcp - He does an excellent job of demonstrating some basic strats and how you can win
http://www.twitch.tv/liquidtlo - This is a stream of a famous Pro-Player who's learning how to play Zerg. He started off as Terran and as such hasn't played in a tournament as Zerg yet.

Just remember, they're not called the swarm for nothing!

"The most valuable possession you can own is an open heart. The most powerful weapon you can be is an instrument of peace." -- Carlos Santana
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13-04-2012, 12:01 AM
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
I watched all Day9 vids, as well as all HuskyStarcraft, Idra, HDStarcraft, Spanishiwa, and Apollo's entire series of "From Bronze to Platinum" and Zerg training vids. I've probably spent 10 times more time learning and watching vids than actually playing. But the results are usually the same.

I'm tired of sacrificing a worker every time I make a new building and walking like a zombie with bad knees whenever I step off creep. I'm going Protoss. Don't try and stop me.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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13-04-2012, 12:26 AM
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
(12-04-2012 04:40 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  So I'm a Zerg multiplayer user and I have a few gripes that are obvious to me every time I play a match. We have been completely fucked over in units.


Early Units

Terran get the Marine. An air and ground attack unit that can be upgraded to the point where they are still good in late game.
Protoss get the Stalker. An air and ground attack unit that also can be massed and blink upgraded to the point where they are unstoppable.
Zerg get the Zergling. Fun at first until you reach middle game and they become fodder for your other units. The Ling and the Roach are both ground attack only. Meaning any early air push will completely destroy you unless you can manage a 2 Queen micro. In order to get the Hydra, you need a Lair, then a Hydralisk Den, then lots of gas. And after the air attack is defeated, you are left with a squishy worthless units that's too slow and too fragile to be used for anything else.

Tier 1 units:

zergling, roach, banelings, queens. Marines are useless against banelings and roaches are only useful if you've scouted out your opponent. Scout them out early enough to figure the composition and if it's heavy marine, go roach/banelings and watch the lulz. Air units should not be a concern if you have a queen out. MOST harassments start with an early banshee (in which case they've spent msot their gas on a harass and need good micro to make it useful) or it's useless. This means you get more gas for an offensive force. But usually early pressure will thwart off such a harass.

Stalkers are usless against a good amount of speedlings. A good surround against a group of stalkers makes it easy. Early roaches are slow, better for defense, unless you're doing 7rr or something. Other than that, it's important to know what they're going with.

But if you scout and can see they are potentially doing an air harass, pump out an extra queen, get 1 spore or get an overseer and enjoy the health micro of queens. Even a void ray against a queen or two properly micro'd is lol-land.

You didn't even mention banelings so I'm assuming you don't use them. Even 1 or 2 well placed banelings will totally destroy marines. Even useful against zealots.

(12-04-2012 04:40 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Scouting

The Protoss get the always invisible Observer. Few people build anti-stealth until later in the game when cloaking appears, so Protoss basically get a free view of the enemy's build order.
Terran get a friggin Scan. With the click of a button, they can see anything that's going on anywhere on the map.
Zerg get Overlords... so incredibly slow that you are forced to upgrade speed if you want even a chance at seeing anything. Then once your new Overseer gets a glance and is immediately killed by all the ground/air enemy starting units, your supply cap drops.

Observers are really late. By the time you have an obs you should have already scouted a base to see what potential madness lies within. So that doesn't mean free view of build order, because it does take a while to get that first robo bay up. EARLY scouting is usually more important. Terrans get scan. You get overseers and changelings. You can have changelings out faster than they can have an obs out. Want a fun scouting tip? Go poop on a xel'naga tower with a changeling, when someone rolls up with marines, make him move in with them. 85% of the timep eople don't notice and you et a free view of their army. Most the time they don't notice because it's as soon as they get vision on the ramp. A well placed overseer in a corner is also fantastic placement for nydus canals which are also a tier 2 tactic. Overseers should never be something that just sits in a base, it should be doing something at all times.

(12-04-2012 04:40 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Aoe Splash Damage

Terran can set 2 Tanks on high ground near their base in seige mode and pretty much destroy anything that comes near them.
Protoss can set 2 Colossi on high ground near their base and pretty much destroy pretty much anything that comes near them.
Zerg can set 2... uhhhhh... Spinecrawlers? Near their base... and pretty much kill one unit as they casually walk past.

I see no mention of infestors. Fungal, infested... a couple infestors and a well placed fungal or two will ruin someone's day. Zerg don't have splash? Fungal.. ultralisks... glaves from mutas... and broodlords are devastating against armies if you are using them as support for a larger army because most the time they can't reach them.

(12-04-2012 04:40 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Ultimate Ground Units

Once Terran break out mass Thors and use their ranged splash damage on air or ground units, it's pretty much over.
Once Protoss break out mass Archons and use their ranged splash damage on air or ground units, it's pretty much over.
Once Zerg break out mass Ultralisks and struggle to get a surround so that the lumbering giants can get within melee range on ground units only, utilizing only a few units at a time since the sheer size stops the others behind them from being able to join in... it's pretty much over for Zerg because meanwhile ALL the Thors and Archons have been ranging them down.

Why are you letting them mass thors? If they are massing thors, you've waited wayyyyyyy too long to put on pressure. This sounds like a really really late game where both parties haven't put pressure on each other because of fear of conflict, or because they're afraid of a retal. With zerg the best time to push is just before you expo, as you expo, etc. This gives you time to eco, macro and get another army ready. Zerg forces are usually expendable, cheap, and made to quickly repopulate. A well placed mind control, fungal and zerglings combo'd with some hydras will smash some thors up pretty easily.

(12-04-2012 04:40 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Ultimate Air Units

Protoss bust out the all-destroying power of the Carrier (better than Mothership IMO), destroying air and land units with the mass interceptors.
Terran bust out the all-destroying power of the Battlecruiser, destroying air and land units with it's lasers.
Zerg bust out the all-destroying power of the Brood Lords, which do rock, but can only attack ground units and are slow as balls.

Corruptors are fantastic against air if you use them right. But again, why are we talking mass units? Most games are 10-15 minutes max. Mass carriers/bcs are something that would be laaaaaaaate game.

(12-04-2012 04:40 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Invisibility

Terran get Banshees, which can destroy your mineral line while cloaked before you can remedy by frantically trying to make Spore Crawlers.
Protoss get Dark Templar, which can destroy pretty much your entire base before you frantically make Spore Crawlers.
Zerg get... nothing. We have absolutely no invisibility. We get burrow. But since you can't attack from underground (don't you dare mention Infested Terran) and only 2 units are capable of even moving while burrowed, it's hardly a fair trade-off.

Then if you suspect it, rush a spore. You can have a spore up within a few minutes. 1 queen and 1 spore EASILY will fend off banshee pressure. Scout out a base and look. If the terran totally walls off and you don't see anything by 6 minutes, run a ling up the ramp, poke, and if you see hardly anything, assume harass pressure while he turtles. This should be a sign you should push hard. Also, instead of spores (which are easily killed by a dt) get an overseer. If it worries you, have one or two spores in well placed areas. i tuck mine behind buildings to make it harder for a dt to get to them, delay it, and make it less appealing. Overseer is cheap, fast, and can be moved from base to base instead of waiting for a spore to build.


(12-04-2012 04:40 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  The Zerg are designed to be countered and beaten by the Terran and the Protoss... that's the entire point of Campaign mode. But at least give us a fighting chance in Multiplayer. Why don't I shut up and play Terran or Protoss instead? Because I don't like picking the easiest race like everyone else, I like picking the unique race and destroying the easier races. But Blizzard is making it so we don't even have a chance. The top 5 players in the world are all Terran, doesn't that say something?


I'm hoping Heart of the Swarm evens it out some, since it will be showcasing the powers of the Zerg in Campaign.

Not true. There's a lot of people who make a lot of wins with zerg. It sounds like from your description you are not fully utilizing all units that you have available, or perhaps aren't scouting enough or are lacking on pressure. Zerg units are cheap to expand, make and push with. Early pressure is crucial if you want to mess up their build order and get them off guard. I can have +1 speedlings up somewhere close to 5 or 6 minutes (don't remember the exact timing) which is fantastic for run by attacks, harassment, and complete frustration of a terran player. Protoss usually don't entirely wall in and they are fantastic for micro harassment.

Dude, add me and we'll play some zerg, I am happy to help. Zerg is my favorite race.
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13-04-2012, 01:33 AM
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
I don't have a problem with bio terran. But they always go mech against Zerg, so I have to deal with blue flame speedy mobiles and siege tanks that kill 10 lings per blast. Plus it takes 9 banelings to kill 1 tank, so you're forced into Muta play, which is very gas heavy. And as soon as you ling against stalkers, half your army gets FFed off and destroyed.


Quote:Observers are really late.

If not Obs then hallucinated Phoenix, which can be obtained within the first 5 minutes with the usual 3GateRobo build. Both the other races have "no units lost" scouting, but as soon as our Changeling runs into the typical ramp wall, we are forced to sacrifice supply to air scout.


Quote:I see no mention of infestors.

It takes 3-4 sequentially placed fungals to kill a small group of marines (assuming they have no upgrades). Psionic storms can wipe out entire armies in a matter of seconds.


Quote:Why are you letting them mass thors? If they are massing thors, you've waited wayyyyyyy too long to put on pressure.

Lots of matches go on for 20+ minutes if both the players are good. You can harass all you want and still be turned away every time. Eventually you have a 200 v 200 war. Watch any of the Master league games. They average around 30 minutes.


Quote:Not true. There's a lot of people who make a lot of wins with zerg.

Yes, up until a point. When you get closer to the top and the skill levels even out, unit quality becomes obvious. Here's Blizzard's Top 16 Starcraft 2 players:

You may notice a pattern.

1 Protoss HuK
2 Protoss TTOne
3 Terran qxc
4 Terran ajtls
5 Protoss KiWiKaKi
6 Zerg IdrA
7 Zerg SLush
7 Terran SeleCT
9 Terran Neans
10 Terran Silver
11 Protoss Antimage
11 Terran Android
13 Terran drewbie
14 Protoss iNcontroL
15 Protoss Kurtz
16 Protoss Agh

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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13-04-2012, 04:29 AM (This post was last modified: 13-04-2012 04:32 AM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
Thought of another one.


Upgrades


Terran and Toss have "Ground Unit Attack and Ground Unit Armor" and "Air Unit Attack and Air Unit Armor" for a total of 4 upgrades categories. They either focus on ground units or air units.

Before even focusing on attack/defense upgrades, Zerg have to upgrade speed for all their units because they're all slow as balls. After that necessary upgrade is out of the way (2 upgrades if you're going Ling and Banelings), Zerg has "Melee Ground Units Attack and Armor," "Ranged Ground Unit Attack and Armor," and "Air Unit Attack and Armor." So every time you have to transition to another unit type, it's pretty much guaranteed to be at 0 upgrades. Meanwhile, all the Toss ground units are maxed out.


And yes, Terran has Bio or Mech upgrades, but both units do the same thing. You don't HAVE to switch to another unit. Zerg, however, MUST switch to Hydras or Mutas to attack air units, each unit having its own separate upgrade category.


Sidenote: In the first day as Protoss, I'm destroying folks with mass Stalkers and Immortals. Air and ground attack, good against light and armor, and all affected by the same "ground unit attack/armor" upgrade. Maybe I'm just not cut out for Zerg until the expansion comes out.


Another sidenote: I'll give out my user name and befriend all the people PMing me once I've played a few more games and gotten better.
(Unless you can guess it... then I'll give it out now. Hint: it's an Aqua Teen Hunger Force reference)

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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16-04-2012, 04:15 PM
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
You apparently such at Sc2.
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16-04-2012, 04:48 PM
RE: Why the Zerg sucks: a Starcraft 2 rant.
(16-04-2012 04:15 PM)Antirepublican Wrote:  You apparently such at Sc2.

Classic troll technique of misspelling the word you are trying to insult the other person with.

Your succh a rettard.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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