Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
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28-10-2013, 06:12 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
Feeding a grammar troll is a greater sin Wink
Re: Miracle if Calanda

event that allegedly took place in 1640, according to 17th century documents.documents lost. But low behold copies were found later.
Such compeling evidence

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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28-10-2013, 10:00 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(28-10-2013 06:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-10-2013 01:42 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Miracle of Calanda....a documented case of amputee being healed

Wikipedia Wrote:Author Brian Dunning has done extensive research and notes that "there is no documentation or witness accounts confirming his leg was ever gone." He presents a non-miraculous explanation that Pellicer's leg did not develop gangrene during the five days at the hospital at Valencia. He spent the next 50 days convalescing, during which he was unable to work. He turned to begging, and discovered that having a broken leg was a boon. After his leg had mended, he decided that if a broken leg helped, a missing leg would be better. Traveling to Zaragoza, he bound his right foreleg up behind his thigh and for two years played the part of an amputee beggar. Later, back at his parents home in Calanda, forced to sleep in a different bed, his ruse was discovered. The story of the miracle was a way to save face. Dunning notes "that no evidence exists that his leg was ever amputated — or that he was even treated at all — at the hospital in Zaragoza other than his own word. He named three doctors there, but for some reason there is no record of their having been interviewed by either the delegation or the trial." That the hole in the cemetery of the hospital of Zaragoza in which the leg had been buried was found empty is consistent with the leg never having been amputated.

He says there is no actual documentation of the leg actually ever being gone because the people who testified it was gone could have been fooled. Does he think there is no documentation that quantum mechanics is correct because all the measurement could be wrong? You can hand wave away anything you want if you are creative enough.

Now I doubt the Miracle of Calanda is true. When I first read about I concluded very much the same thing...that the kid was running a scam. However, it is a documented case of an amputee being healed. You don't have to believe it, but its silly to pretend it doesn't exist and justify that belief by just hand waving away evidence like he did.
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28-10-2013, 10:06 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(28-10-2013 10:00 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-10-2013 06:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  

He says there is no actual documentation of the leg actually ever being gone because the people who testified it was gone could have been fooled. Does he think there is no documentation that quantum mechanics is correct because all the measurement could be wrong? You can hand wave away anything you want if you are creative enough.

Now I doubt the Miracle of Calanda is true. When I first read about I concluded very much the same thing...that the kid was running a scam. However, it is a documented case of an amputee being healed. You don't have to believe it, but its silly to pretend it doesn't exist and justify that belief by just hand waving away evidence like he did.

When the documentation is suspect, it is not a documented case.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-10-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
Social media is the new truth:
Multiple video sources most time and thousands of field specific experts analyzing footage seconds after up load.
Fake ufo footage only last minutes on youtube now before exposure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6737MHr...ata_player

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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28-10-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(28-10-2013 01:42 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Miracle of Calanda....a documented case of amputee being healed

Dude you have to go back to the 17th century to dig that shit up?

Shoo fly!


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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28-10-2013, 10:22 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(28-10-2013 01:42 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Miracle of Calanda....a documented case of amputee being healed

Yeah, cuz there were no gullible believers in magic back then.

/sarcasm

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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28-10-2013, 10:28 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(28-10-2013 10:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  When the documentation is suspect, it is not a documented case.

Even the skeptic who wrote the skeptical article acknowledges the documentation is probably legitimate:

"If we accept that these documents are indeed legitimate, and I think we can, is there any wiggle room left? Do the documents consist of proof that a miraculous restoration of an amputated limb occurred?"

He then goes on to just hand wave it away though by basically saying, "Its not proof cause all those people who knew him with one leg...could have been fooled". Now your just doing the same thing he is but on a more egregious scale. Don't like something....just handwave it away.....that's the Chas way.
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28-10-2013, 10:37 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(28-10-2013 10:16 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(28-10-2013 01:42 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Miracle of Calanda....a documented case of amputee being healed

Dude you have to go back to the 17th century to dig that shit up?

Shoo fly!

Your criticism is silly.

I have to go back to the 17th century to find documentation of the last supernova to be observed with the naked eye. Somethings are just rare occurrences and because they don't happen in your lifetime, doesn't mean they didn't happen.
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28-10-2013, 10:41 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
So its like the statement that. God wont interfere in the world of men anymore when people ask why biblical characters had all this "hey I'm here hands on time"with god.and now we have a clue God is hands off.

God no longer does house calls so old stories are the best evidence we are going to get.

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28-10-2013, 10:42 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(28-10-2013 10:28 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-10-2013 10:06 AM)Chas Wrote:  When the documentation is suspect, it is not a documented case.

Even the skeptic who wrote the skeptical article acknowledges the documentation is probably legitimate:

"If we accept that these documents are indeed legitimate, and I think we can, is there any wiggle room left? Do the documents consist of proof that a miraculous restoration of an amputated limb occurred?"

He then goes on to just hand wave it away though by basically saying, "Its not proof cause all those people who knew him with one leg...could have been fooled". Now your just doing the same thing he is but on a more egregious scale. Don't like something....just handwave it away.....that's the Chas way.

Quote:Author Brian Dunning has done extensive research and notes that "there is no documentation or witness accounts confirming his leg was ever gone."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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