Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-11-2013, 03:54 PM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(01-11-2013 03:50 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  I need to watch that film.

You and me both.


Well, don't you all stare at me like this. Even I'm not perfect. Dodgy

But I'm damn close Smartass

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-11-2013, 05:39 PM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(01-11-2013 03:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-11-2013 02:04 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  When he used the word "journalist" I took it to mean the people who recorded the event at or around the time it happened. Not the guy who wrote the skeptic version almost 400 years later.

Your reading of it is incorrect.

Your reading of it is incorrect.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-11-2013, 09:15 PM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(01-11-2013 03:13 PM)cjlr Wrote:  There are indeed several senses in which the word evidence is used. You, facetiously, skip merrily from one to the next when it suits you, without acknowledging so.

Perhaps you can show an example of what you are talking about.


Quote:Now, your....logic here appears to be:
A claim is made. The evidence used to support this claim is specious. But because the claim is not refuted by the very materials used to support it, any refutation is therefore dependent on externally introduced 'facts' and is thus invalid.

No...my logic is and always has been this:

A claim is made. It is supported by circumstantial evidence. The circumstantial evidence doesn't go away when the refutation introduces new "facts".

Quote:Because a claim having been made is apparently to be construed as evidence of the claim itself. You... are aware that this line of 'argument' lends itself to supporting, oh, every single claim ever made by anyone, yes?

You are conflating the claim with the evidence. The claim is "God heals(or has healed) amputees". The evidence is a historical record of God healing an amputee. Now you and others can dismiss that record but only by adding in new "facts" to the historical account.

Quote:There exist documents which attest to the fact that Pellicer possessed, at one point in time, two legs. There exists no documentation whatseover beyond fourth-hand post-hoc "eyewitnesses" that he ever possessed, at any point in time prior to that, one leg.

This is what Dunning says:

"There is no documentation or witness accounts confirming his leg was ever gone.

But what about all those witnesses who knew him with one leg? Allow me to offer an alternative version of what might have happened, that requires no miraculous intervention, and is still consistent with all the documentary evidence we have."

And then Dunning goes on to make a bunch of stuff up in order to make the historical account consistent with his world view. He is basically claims that since everyone got duped by this guy(something Dunning makes up) into thinking he only had one leg, there really is no documentation or witness accounts confirming his leg was ever gone.

This statement from Dunning is laughable"

"We have evidence that he was admitted to the hospital in Valencia with his uncle. We have notarized first-hand statements that a scar was visible on his leg where he had been injured by the mule cart. We have numerous statements that he was well known in Zaragoza as a one-legged beggar. All the evidence supports Pellicer being a beggar with a popular and time-honored gimmick who was caught, not with his hand in the cookie jar, but with his feet out of the blanket. It is only through the introduction of a new assumption, that of the existence of unprecedented supernatural intervention, can the alternate explanation of a miraculous restoration be found consistent with this same evidence. This is where Occam's Razor comes into play: The most likely explanation is the one that requires the fewest new assumptions."

Its laughable because Dunning himself is introducing a new assumption...that assumption is Pellicer was scamming people with a beggars gimmick.

Perhaps you or Dunning or someone on this forum can explain away the historical account that God healed an amputee without introducing new assumptions or "facts". If you can't then why should a theist who accepts this account on its face because it is consistent with their world view believe you when you say it didn't happen?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-11-2013, 11:24 PM (This post was last modified: 03-11-2013 11:30 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(28-10-2013 10:37 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I have to go back to the 17th century to find documentation of the last supernova to be observed with the naked eye. Somethings are just rare occurrences and because they don't happen in your lifetime, doesn't mean they didn't happen.


What's amazing is that we have documentation of someone observing the hitherto unknown phenomena of a super novae, without them knowing what it really was. While it might be rare for one to be so close and massive as to be noticed by the naked eye, that point is now mute in the age of satellites and telescopes. But super novae are NOT rare. The universe is massive and ancient, with rare and improbably things happening all of the time.

Here is a list of recent observed and recorded super novae, and there are over 175 for the year 2013 alone; and these are just the ones we've seen. Taking into account just how little of the sky we can actively scan for these things, it's safe to extrapolate that they are happening all the time across the universe, and fairly frequently in our own galaxy.


http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/lists/Re...novae.html

http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/lists/Supernovae.html


Now if only god healed amputees as often as he blew up stars and created black holes, we might have some compelling evidence. Maybe...

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2013, 12:05 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(03-11-2013 11:24 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Now if only god healed amputees as often as he blew up stars and created black holes, we might have some compelling evidence. Maybe...

Compelling evidence that sometimes by a process we don't understand people get better when according to current medical knowledge they should be kicking the bucket ? Yeah. Compelling evidence that some invisible dick did the healing ? Not so much.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes morondog's post
04-11-2013, 12:09 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(04-11-2013 12:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  Compelling evidence that some invisible dick did the healing ? Not so much.

Sounds like the plot of a Japanese anime.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like sporehux's post
04-11-2013, 12:31 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(04-11-2013 12:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(03-11-2013 11:24 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Now if only god healed amputees as often as he blew up stars and created black holes, we might have some compelling evidence. Maybe...

Compelling evidence that sometimes by a process we don't understand people get better when according to current medical knowledge they should be kicking the bucket ? Yeah. Compelling evidence that some invisible dick did the healing ? Not so much.

Emphasis on maybe... Laughat

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes EvolutionKills's post
04-11-2013, 01:36 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(03-11-2013 11:24 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Now if only god healed amputees as often as he blew up stars and created black holes, we might have some compelling evidence. Maybe...

I think where your thinking goes wrong is you fail to account that there are many many many many more stars then there are human beings. If the universe contained the same number of stars as human beings, then you might see a supernova every 600-700 years. If God healed amputees at the same rate as He blew up stars we should see one amputee healed every 600-700 years.....since it was recorded that one amputee was healed about 400 years ago...we are not due to see another amputee healed for about 300 years or so.

Actually....my thinking above is in error because not all humans are amputees. If God healed amputees at the same rate as He blows up stars we shouldn't really expect to see one in the entirety of human history.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2013, 01:43 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
Biggest gaff of the bible. God took days to do a few things on earth but only a second to create trillions of other stars and planets.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-11-2013, 01:46 AM
RE: Why wont prayer heal amputees ?
(04-11-2013 01:43 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Biggest gaff of the bible. God took days to do a few things on earth but only a second to create trillions of other stars and planets.

When you have always existed, there isn't much difference between a second, a day, or a trillion years. Its all pretty much an instant.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: