Why you choose to not believe?
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31-10-2014, 01:15 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 01:01 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 12:58 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  So... what? Become increasingly more vague until you stop getting your ass handed to you? I can see where that might appeal. :/

If we take his prior "argument" at face value, he's speaking only of things (X) about which "nothing of any meaning" can be said, but that would in fact preclude any "as likely [to be] as not" qualifier, which is saying something of meaning with regards to X.

So there's that.

Classic!!!
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31-10-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 12:42 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 12:09 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  no my man I don't think you know what I meant, I'm sorry.. I don't think this is a 50/50 scenario.


I think
A. We don't know how to test in a valid way at this time.
B. Can't form a likelihood then (well we can, but that estimation isn't worth shit, and to use it in an argument is perplexing)



This could be for any scenario, and I think the choice of 'after-life' has tainted my point. You could say you want to entertain the scenario of unicorns, and If that makes you happy then You should. That was my point!

I'm not even here, at this time, to defend this afterlife scenario to be honest. I'm here to find out how some claim to have an estimation

You are unduly obsessed with testing and measuring. There are all kinds of things that we don't believe, not because we have established anything by tests and measurements, but simply because there is no good reason to believe them. The existence of an afterlife is one of these things. You don't seem to want to accept that, but that's your problem, not ours. Not everything requires measurement.

Having said that, there is plenty of scientific data linking consciousness to electrical activity in the brain, and damage to the brain, or deterioration of the brain, is always accompanied by deterioration of conciousness. It would be insanity to think that consciousness survives the death of the brain. I don't know why you have such a hard time accepting that.

I never said anything about the parameters of this afterlife. This isn't about forming a believe, this is about entertaining the possibility that makes you most happy. I understand that these experts have shown that it is improbable that consciousness survives brain death. I assert that we think that these tests are a reasonable way to provide insight into some form of predefined afterlife. Them being thought reasonable in no way implies that they actually measure afterlife potential. They are just our best attempt at this time

I'm harping on measuring and testing because those things are pretty important. When you have can't measure/test there is a good reason to entertain them.. They could make you happy. If there is no way to measure/test why not?

Lets say you hypothetically have a disease in which there is a 80 percent mortality rate. Would you not entertain the scenario in which you beat that disease? With this disease we get the likelihood of living vs death because we have history to see well shit 8/10 people die with this condition. With the afterlife scenario we don't even have a metric, and yet you're confused on why I would entertain the possibility.
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31-10-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 12:47 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  Let me try my hand at crafting a more clear statement. The OP was not thought through, and I want to apologize for this.

if 'nothing of any meaning' can be said about X/nonX ('evidence to contrary, a meaningful probability showing unlikely etc..')
and entertaining X makes you happy
you should entertain X

This would not mean you believe in X. This means that in this case you entertain X despite lack of evidence because it makes you happier.

Do you guys think that this is better?

You can hope X is true all you want. I do not understand how wanting something to be true with no evidence can make you happier unless you like living in a delusion. Contemplating what I would do if I won the lottery may pass the time but if I act on it I will screw myself over. Thinking you will have an afterlife can affect your decisions here. Basing decisions on knowledge is safer than basing them on fantasy.

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31-10-2014, 01:22 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 01:17 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 12:47 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  Let me try my hand at crafting a more clear statement. The OP was not thought through, and I want to apologize for this.

if 'nothing of any meaning' can be said about X/nonX ('evidence to contrary, a meaningful probability showing unlikely etc..')
and entertaining X makes you happy
you should entertain X

This would not mean you believe in X. This means that in this case you entertain X despite lack of evidence because it makes you happier.

Do you guys think that this is better?

You can hope X is true all you want. I do not understand how wanting something to be true with no evidence can make you happier unless you like living in a delusion. Contemplating what I would do if I won the lottery may pass the time but if I act on it I will screw myself over. Thinking you will have an afterlife can affect your decisions here. Basing decisions on knowledge is safer than basing them on fantasy.

This is a good point, and I appreciate your perspective.
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31-10-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 01:17 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  Lets say you hypothetically have a disease in which there is a 80 percent mortality rate. Would you not entertain the scenario in which you beat that disease? With this disease we get the likelihood of living vs death because we have history to see well shit 8/10 people die with this condition. With the afterlife scenario we don't even have a metric, and yet you're confused on why I would entertain the possibility.

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31-10-2014, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2014 01:53 PM by Switz5678.)
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 01:01 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 12:58 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  So... what? Become increasingly more vague until you stop getting your ass handed to you? I can see where that might appeal. :/

If we take his prior "argument" at face value, he's speaking only of things (X) about which "nothing of any meaning" can be said, but that would in fact preclude any "as likely [to be] as not" qualifier, which is saying something of meaning with regards to X.

So there's that.

Yes exactly.. You can't say anything about 'as likely [to be] as not' in terms of X.

if you're pinging me on stating "'nothing of meaning'", and then pinging me for stating things we don't know.. there was a reason I put the apostrophes in, and the parenthesis were there to explain. I'll make it easier for you

Let Y be defined as follows
having Evidence to contrary
having meaningful probability

If Y can not be said about X/nonX
and entertaining X makes you happy
entertain X

Now obviously you shouldn't entertain X in a scenario in which it causes you/others harm.
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31-10-2014, 01:38 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 01:27 PM)Impulse Wrote:  [Image: 55831854.jpg]

If that makes you happy, and its no harm to anyone(including yourself) then fuck yeah my man entertain it
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31-10-2014, 01:46 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2014 01:55 PM by Switz5678.)
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 12:58 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 12:52 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  As written this wasn't about afterlife. I want this argument to be taken on its merit, and how its written.

So... what? Become increasingly more vague until you stop getting your ass handed to you? I can see where that might appeal. :/

nobody has handed me my ass. You created a strawman, and that is the indicator of ass handedness.. I don't even think you realize what I'm stating to be honest
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31-10-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 01:46 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  nobody has handed me my ass.


Dude.....

Lol

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31-10-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 01:35 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 01:01 PM)cjlr Wrote:  If we take his prior "argument" at face value, he's speaking only of things (X) about which "nothing of any meaning" can be said, but that would in fact preclude any "as likely [to be] as not" qualifier, which is saying something of meaning with regards to X.

So there's that.

Yes exactly.. You can't say anything about 'as likely [to be] as not' in terms of X.

if you're pinging me on stating "'nothing of meaning'", and then pinging me for stating things we don't know.. there was a reason I put the apostrophes in, and the parenthesis were there to explain. I'll make it easier for you

Let Y be defined as follows
having Evidence to contrary
having meaningful probability

If Y can not be said about X/nonX
and entertaining X makes you happy
entertain X

Now obviously you shouldn't entertain X in a scenario in which it causes you/others harm.

That's still incoherent.

What is necessary for a belief to make you happy? It must necessarily be a belief that affects you in some way if it is true. Otherwise, who gives a shit?

You've now limited your consideration to things that are sufficiently defined that one can assess some "happiness" value, and yet simultaneously so completely undefined that no knowledge about them does - or even can - exist. It would seem to me that the intersection between those sets is null.

Not to mention the continued presupposition that it's possible to exercise choice in belief...

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