Why you choose to not believe?
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31-10-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 02:55 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  What I mean by this entertain/choose to believe is pretty much hope. Perhaps that is the best way to put it..

Believe... entertain... now hope...

Do you know what it is you're discussing? Consider

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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31-10-2014, 03:08 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 03:05 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 02:55 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  Do you not see the difference between an invisible fairy, and learning languages? In one case we know what it takes to learn, and can make a reasonable assessment of this probability.. In the other we can't because we don't know shit about shit to be frank.

I disagree. Vehemently.

I think it is more likely that I wake up speaking a different language tomorrow than that there exist invisible faeries.

At the very least, you could wake up and develop a foreign accent out of nowhere.

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31-10-2014, 03:11 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 11:42 AM)Switz5678 Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 05:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  You are doing it again, conflating estimation and calculation. People estimate the likelihood of things all the time.

You are a ranting child sobbing "why? why? why?".

you can not have an estimate with any measure of reliability when you don't even know how to measure the thing. Point. Blank. Period.

We make estimates all the time, some more and some less accurate.

Quote:I'm not conflating anything. First you said it was likelihood and probability, and I showed you that was bullshit. Now you change it to estimation and calculation hahaha.

Listen, you are making the assertion that you have an estimation that in some way means something. Prove it?

Until then you're just a blind old man uttering "but? but? but...?"

I can make an estimation on a lot of fucking things, but they don't mean shit if I know nothing about the parameters, if my 'tests' are valid etc..

Go ahead and entertain any idea you want - you don't need to justify it, nor do we need to entertain it.

You keep talking about 'tests' and 'measurements' but those have absolutely nothing to do with the issue. We don't have to test and measure to know that winning the lottery is less likely than having a car accident.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-10-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 03:05 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I disagree. Vehemently.

I think it is more likely that I wake up speaking a different language tomorrow than that there exist invisible faeries.


I don't feel attacked at all. I was just very unsure of what you were trying to say - and what I did think I understood did not make sense to me.

Okay lets make a deal.. No more talk about afterlife. Agreed?

I'm going to admit up front that I don't know a lot about logic, and if employ some fallacy just point it out.

why do you think one is more likely then the other? When you say "likely" do you mean a rough estimate of probability? When you say one is more likely then the other do you mean that the probability of one is greater then the other?
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31-10-2014, 03:20 PM (This post was last modified: 31-10-2014 03:24 PM by Switz5678.)
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 03:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  We don't have to test and measure to know that winning the lottery is less likely than having a car accident.

Yes you do. You compare the likelihood of winning the lottery, and then compare it to the likelihood of getting in a car crash. Which ever is less probable is less likely. Without the original tests and measure of the likelihood of both things no reasonable comparison could be made

You can't compare two events if for one you don't know this likelihood factor. Wouldn't make sense
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31-10-2014, 03:22 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(29-10-2014 04:28 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  I can understand the obvious flaws in all the mainstream religious belief systems. What I can't understand is why the choice to believe in a Godless universe without the chance of afterlife? or even an afterlife without a God entity?
------------------------------------
I guess my basic line of reasoning can be summed up as follows..

-We're unable to discern a method to establish the likelihood of one, or the other.
-I see life/living as preferable to death/nonexisting.
-In the absence of the ability to discern possibility/probability you should choose what makes you most happy.

My end game from this would be that its rational to believe, and not rational to not believe.
---------------------------------------

Anyways, I'm interested in hearing your views

I choose not to believe in deities for the same reason I choose not to believe in leprechauns: because I see no evidence to support it. Your reasoning is making a claim and then working your way backwards. You're taking an opinion and saying that it is a fact until it is proven otherwise. That's not rational. It's completely irrational.

If believing in a deity gives you hope and makes you feel better, then have at it. Just don't insist that I need to share your belief in a deity in order to have a positive outlook on life.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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31-10-2014, 03:27 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 03:20 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  You can't compare two events if for one you don't know this likelihood factor. Wouldn't make sense

The point I was trying to make to you a little earlier was that if you know so little about something as to be unable to make any statistical assessment whatsoever, then it must also be true that you know so little about it that it cannot be in any way meaningful.

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31-10-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 03:27 PM)cjlr Wrote:  The point I was trying to make to you a little earlier was that if you know so little about something as to be unable to make any statistical assessment whatsoever, then it must also be true that you know so little about it that it cannot be in any way meaningful.

What do you mean by "it cannot be in any meaningful way"?

a thousand years ago we knew so little about the x-ray spectrum of light that we couldn't make a statistical assessment whatsoever. We now know that the probability of this is 100 percent
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31-10-2014, 03:41 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 03:20 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 03:11 PM)Chas Wrote:  We don't have to test and measure to know that winning the lottery is less likely than having a car accident.

Yes you do. You compare the likelihood of winning the lottery, and then compare it to the likelihood of getting in a car crash. Which ever is less probable is less likely. Without the original tests and measure of the likelihood of both things no reasonable comparison could be made

You can't compare two events if for one you don't know this likelihood factor. Wouldn't make sense

The point is that we estimate these. All the time.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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31-10-2014, 03:47 PM
RE: Why you choose to not believe?
(31-10-2014 12:58 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(31-10-2014 12:52 PM)Switz5678 Wrote:  As written this wasn't about afterlife. I want this argument to be taken on its merit, and how its written.

So... what? Become increasingly more vague until you stop getting your ass handed to you? I can see where that might appeal. :/

Hey, as long as it makes him happy.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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