Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
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29-12-2013, 12:48 PM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(29-12-2013 07:19 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  One complaint that will often come up in religious debates is the existence of other religions. Christians will deal with this in several different ways. The more liberal ones will say "everyone believes in their own way" or something. Others feel that other religious people are terribly misguided or even deceived by Satan. They might even counter that other old religions were the result of superstitions, but Christianity is totally real and the result of real historical events.

That being said, you'd think that the existence of Mormonism, Wicca, and Scientology would be troubling to them.

Both Wicca and Scientology have been on this earth less time than my living grandmother. Yes, there are totally people who can remember a time before those religions existed, and yet there are people that seriously believe them. The LDS sect shows that people are totally capable of taking existing doctrine, turning it into something else, and getting thousands, and eventually millions of followers (even ones willing to kill, back when the sect was being formed). The transformation from Protestantism to Mormonism perfectly mirrors that of Judaism to Christianity.

You'd think that these things would be troubling to Christians. We've already seen all the mechanisms that created their religion in action within the last two hundred years. What is the common defense/argument against this? What's the apologetics to say that Christianity is totes real?
There is no defense against this.
I already told you about the only way to know the truth.
No, I am sorry, there is one more way to know the truth - from your own experience.

Advice: follow your conscience/heart, do good to all men and you will be just fine when you stand before God one day.

English is not my native language.
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29-12-2013, 01:11 PM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(29-12-2013 12:48 PM)Alla Wrote:  Advice: follow your conscience/heart, do good to all men and you will be just fine when you stand before God one day.

I wish more Christians felt this way. I'm not saying I believe it, but the rest of them would come off much less abrasive if they could roll like this.
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29-12-2013, 06:46 PM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(29-12-2013 12:48 PM)Alla Wrote:  Advice: follow your conscience/heart, do good to all men and you will be just fine when you stand before God one day.

At the risk of getting off topic....this is humanism with the word God in it. "Doing good" and following a conscience has nothing to do with religion or spirituality.

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29-12-2013, 07:52 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2013 08:00 PM by Alla.)
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(29-12-2013 06:46 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 12:48 PM)Alla Wrote:  Advice: follow your conscience/heart, do good to all men and you will be just fine when you stand before God one day.

At the risk of getting off topic....this is humanism with the word God in it. "Doing good" and following a conscience has nothing to do with religion or spirituality.
One of the ancient apostles of Jesus Christ said: "PURE RELIGION is to help widow and orphan"
Jesus(God Jehovah/Yahweh) said that those who feed hungry, cloth naked, give water to thirsty,....do it to Him.
Humanism is essential part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Humanism is part of the truth.
Another ancient apostle of Jesus Christ said that there are three: Faith, Hope and Charity. And do you know which one is the greatest? faith? no. hope? no.
charity? yes!
If to do good to others is not spirituality then what is spirituality?

English is not my native language.
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29-12-2013, 08:04 PM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(29-12-2013 07:52 PM)Alla Wrote:  If to do good to others is not spirituality then what is spirituality?

Believing in spirits and/or things of a spiritual nature.

Cephalotus is right. These two things are not the same thing or dependent on each other. A person can be spiritual and not help others. They can help others and not be spiritual. A car can be red or blue. It can have two doors or four doors. Not all red cars are two-doors and not all blue cars are four-doors. They're entirely different things, even if they sometimes look related.
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29-12-2013, 08:31 PM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(29-12-2013 08:04 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 07:52 PM)Alla Wrote:  If to do good to others is not spirituality then what is spirituality?
Believing in spirits and/or things of a spiritual nature.
OK. How does it make me spiritual?

(29-12-2013 08:04 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Cephalotus is right. These two things are not the same thing or dependent on each other. A person can be spiritual and not help others. They can help others and not be spiritual. A car can be red or blue. It can have two doors or four doors. Not all red cars are two-doors and not all blue cars are four-doors. They're entirely different things, even if they sometimes look related.
WOW! I can't believe what I am reading. Almost everything is upside down.
What are the FRUITS of this kind of "spirituality" - believe in spirits?
Do you remember James's words about DEAD faith(believes)?

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29-12-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(29-12-2013 08:31 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 08:04 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Believing in spirits and/or things of a spiritual nature.
OK. How does it make me spiritual?

It's what the word means. Spiritual means believing in spirits, souls, or other non-physical things. It doesn't mean anything else. You're over defining the term.

It doesn't mean "being good". It doesn't mean "eating pizza". It doesn't mean "can fly and shoot lasers out of your eyes". It means "believing in spirits, souls, and other spiritual things".


(29-12-2013 08:31 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(29-12-2013 08:04 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Cephalotus is right. These two things are not the same thing or dependent on each other. A person can be spiritual and not help others. They can help others and not be spiritual. A car can be red or blue. It can have two doors or four doors. Not all red cars are two-doors and not all blue cars are four-doors. They're entirely different things, even if they sometimes look related.
WOW! I can't believe what I am reading. Almost everything is upside down.
What are the FRUITS of this kind of "spirituality" - believe in spirits?
Do you remember James's words about DEAD faith(believes)?

It doesn't matter what he said in regards to the definition of the word "spiritual". Any "fruits" of spirituality are just extra beliefs people tack onto being spiritual.
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30-12-2013, 01:06 AM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
No matter how many times we explain it, Alla is going to be stuck in his/her own little reality. Don't waste your time!

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30-12-2013, 05:12 AM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(29-12-2013 07:19 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  One complaint that will often come up in religious debates is the existence of other religions. Christians will deal with this in several different ways. The more liberal ones will say "everyone believes in their own way" or something. Others feel that other religious people are terribly misguided or even deceived by Satan. They might even counter that other old religions were the result of superstitions, but Christianity is totally real and the result of real historical events.

That being said, you'd think that the existence of Mormonism, Wicca, and Scientology would be troubling to them.

Both Wicca and Scientology have been on this earth less time than my living grandmother. Yes, there are totally people who can remember a time before those religions existed, and yet there are people that seriously believe them. The LDS sect shows that people are totally capable of taking existing doctrine, turning it into something else, and getting thousands, and eventually millions of followers (even ones willing to kill, back when the sect was being formed). The transformation from Protestantism to Mormonism perfectly mirrors that of Judaism to Christianity.

You'd think that these things would be troubling to Christians. We've already seen all the mechanisms that created their religion in action within the last two hundred years. What is the common defense/argument against this? What's the apologetics to say that Christianity is totes real?


I really cannot believe that you're alluding to - that the length of existence allows for any more validity OF said religion?? In your own small way you're giving more credibility to Christianity than you realize. It simply doesn't matter if a religion's been around 50 years or 500 or 5000. Clearly the number of people of length of time of Any religion doesn't make that religion more valid or believable than any other. I think if you look closely you'll find that being "adaptable' is more or less the point of religion. (Time, attitude and graciousness not withstanding)
lol

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30-12-2013, 07:34 AM
RE: Wicca, LDS, Scientology, and "mainstream" Christianity
(30-12-2013 05:12 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I really cannot believe that you're alluding to - that the length of existence allows for any more validity OF said religion?? In your own small way you're giving more credibility to Christianity than you realize. It simply doesn't matter if a religion's been around 50 years or 500 or 5000. Clearly the number of people of length of time of Any religion doesn't make that religion more valid or believable than any other. I think if you look closely you'll find that being "adaptable' is more or less the point of religion. (Time, attitude and graciousness not withstanding)
lol

I think you're misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying that if a religion has been around a long time that it makes it more credible. I've heard people argue that before, that's not the point of the OP.

My point is that Christians often claim that an entire religion couldn't just spring up organically like that, and so the existence of the religion must therefore prove the existence of the god. I listed these three religions because they're all relatively recent in human history and show how people can totally believe something in a short period of time. I'm discussing the origins of the religion.

Also, I probably should have put Islam in there as a forth example, simply to show that a "false religion" can gain a following measured in billions of adherents.
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