Wicked Clown
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29-08-2014, 03:20 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
By all means, give the guy a chance, it's like watching a train wreck about to happen. The thing a staff of a forum can do is preserve a little sanity within it. Of course every forum is different, so by all means let the guy turn a forum into his personal youtube comments page. Dodgy
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29-08-2014, 03:21 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
(29-08-2014 03:18 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 03:16 PM)morondog Wrote:  Do we have to care about this stuff? We're not a mental ward. We're a discussion forum.
There is no such thing as "have to"
I'm just expressing my opinion.
If the guy ain't broke the rules and aint poisoning the whole forum then I don't see a reason to ban him

Indeed. Some members would say he's done both to various extents.

Hence the disagreement.

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29-08-2014, 03:22 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
(29-08-2014 03:15 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 03:09 PM)cjlr Wrote:  His experience on this forum has nothing to do with coming out of a religious upbringing. So there's that.
I don't think that is true.
The guy is a result of his upbringing. He behaves in a way because whatever (I'm suggesting that some kids are clearly abused/brainwashed from an early age). Of course I don't know Wicked Clown's history.
Is he a troll, being disruptive for kicks, or is he doing what he must due to his upbringing? I don't think we can claim that his upbringing had nothing to do with it.

It doesn't fucking matter what his upbringing was, what his personal problems are, or what his mental health diagnosis is.

He has disrupted the forum with insane threads and posts, scared off at least one valued member, used the PM system to harass. Rule 5 allows the admins to ban him.

And you can see that a great many members think that would be appropriate.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-08-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
(29-08-2014 02:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 02:50 PM)cjlr Wrote:  I'm pretty sure "BUT SLIPPERY SLOPE LOL" is not a very good reason to do or not do anything.

No system is administered flawless and no policy is free of either pros or cons.

Your first sentence is dumb, and tbh not worthy of you. What I stated was the most likely progression of events.

It doesn't become a likely progression of events just because you call it the most likely progression of events.

If you're going to make a slippery slope argument, you have to justify it.

I can grant some validity to exceptions begetting exceptions, but I don't see that as the situation here.

(29-08-2014 02:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  MD said why can't we just act in a way that isn't in keeping with how we do thing on this one occasion. Say we did that. Are you really gonna try and argue that it's unreasonable to suggest that people would want to do the exact same thing again? Why wouldn't we do the exact same thing again? Like I said, totally beneath you.

morondog was explicitly referring to the infamous Rule 5. Since "disruption" is subjective...

Related question: to what extent are mod actions supposed to represent forum opinion?

(29-08-2014 02:58 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Second sentence, this I agree with. The pro of Chas' approach is there are no undesirables, the con Chas' approach is that a select few people choose what constitutes an undesirable. That's why on most forums, you can get banned for criticising the Mods. It's strangely common that when Mods start banning anyone who's a "dick", the first people they turn to are their critics. The pro of the current system is that everyone is treated fairly. The con is that we may have the odd undesirable who creates the odd thread that people who don't wanna see it have to avoid clicking on. Given those choices of pros and cons, I prefer the Stark model.

The presence of, as you say, "undesirables" is a push factor for every forum member who doesn't appreciate their behaviour. "Don't like, don't read" is not a very substantive counter; the mood and culture of the forum as a whole can't be so compartmentalised.

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29-08-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
Kind of getting to the point where I'm ready for this guy to go so everyone's satisfied and will shut the fuck up. At least then we'll get back contributing forum member who shall not be named back.

Yeah, he pretty much no doubt falls foul of rule five. I realize this guy is pretty fucked up (or, as everyone's been putting it nicely, "malignant") and he's done a lot of fucked up stuff. A lot of us who know details of the backstory are well aware of what he's capable of. I definitely don't mean to come off as supportive of the unpopular opinion that he should stay, because I don't care much for the guy. I'm just trying to remain fair and neutral or whatever. Chances are given and I suppose this two week ban could be considered as his final warning. Regardless, I don't think criticizing the admins is really necessary.
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29-08-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
(29-08-2014 03:09 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(29-08-2014 02:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, and fuck you.
Just asking. I don't know why you personally think Wicked Clown fucks up the place for everyone else.
(29-08-2014 02:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no good reason to allow one person to fuck the place up for everyone else.
As I have said, he is easily avoided, he is not ruining all threads.
So I am guessing why you have a problem, would be great if you cared to elaborate and hence I wouldn't need to guess.

(29-08-2014 02:50 PM)Chas Wrote:  You have completely missed the gist of the argument.
You could always clarify, rather than focusing on me
Stevil, I'll try to explain what I think is likely the case. Some people start viewing this forum as a community, not just a place to read things online. Just like if you were in a real-life club or in a special interest group, you might start to feel protective of that group and its members. You might start to think of that group as an extension of your family or friends. Basically, having an emotional stake in the community of that group. When somebody comes with apparent malicious intent to a place you consider important to you, you will bare your fangs in defense.

Playing the just and pure card of innocent until proven guilty is....what it is. But I personally think surgically removing a very tiny piece of the body/group that has a high possibility of being cancerous (and has shown signs of it) is the more logical and healthier approach over letting it live out its course "in fairness".

Even if his type can't harm me, I understand that others are different and really can sustain harm from this sort of thing.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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29-08-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
(29-08-2014 03:18 PM)Stevil Wrote:  There is no such thing as "have to"
Yay Smile

Quote:I'm just expressing my opinion.
And... that's OK right? I'm expressing mine right back atcha Wink

Quote:If the guy ain't broke the rules and aint poisoning the whole forum then I don't see a reason to ban him
1. I think that the debate over whether he broke the rules is irrelevant - he's poison.
2. But he has broken them *anyway* - although whether he actually has and the degree is subject to dispute.
3. He has harassed several members by PM (I know this only from what other members have said in their public posts) and in his own posts. I think that's poisoning the forum.
4. There's a fairly strong case that he knows what he's up to (given members of other forums commenting here about how we're dealing with it and his behaviour on their forums).
5. He *followed* a forum member here after they avoided him on another forum - to me that's a massive red flag that he knows what he's up to.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-08-2014, 03:34 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
(29-08-2014 02:14 PM)kim Wrote:  Anyone here been to jail lately? Kook house, maybe? Is there anything specific I shouldn't wear for visiting day? Where's HoC when ya need him, huh? Shy

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#sigh
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29-08-2014, 03:35 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
(29-08-2014 01:32 PM)Ferdinand Wrote:  I really don't see why this is still under discussion, because when he comes back and slips up again there's no doubt he'll probably be banned. The only benefit of still posting about this shit is upping your post count...

Facepalm

There's the problem - probably.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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29-08-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: Wicked Clown
(29-08-2014 03:31 PM)Ferdinand Wrote:  Kind of getting to the point where I'm ready for this guy to go so everyone's satisfied and will shut the fuck up. At least then we'll get back contributing forum member who shall not be named back.

Yeah, he pretty much no doubt falls foul of rule five. I realize this guy is pretty fucked up (or, as everyone's been putting it nicely, "malignant") and he's done a lot of fucked up stuff. A lot of us who know details of the backstory are well aware of what he's capable of. I definitely don't mean to come off as supportive of the unpopular opinion that he should stay, because I don't care much for the guy. I'm just trying to remain fair and neutral or whatever. Chances are given and I suppose this two week ban could be considered as his final warning. Regardless, I don't think criticizing the admins is really necessary.

Welcome to the joyful position of mod, where everyone throws poo at you when times are bad, and no one really gives a shit when times are good Smile Just know that even if we're coming across as critical we value you guys and appreciate the job you're doing. Probably don't say it enough though.

*Also* criticism is just that - it's us having our say. You guys are the ones holding the spade at the end of the day, so as long as you feel that you've done the right thing, that's what's important.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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