Wife busted our cover at school
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03-03-2012, 05:17 PM
RE: Wife busted our cover at school
(03-03-2012 09:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 02:51 AM)hollowpointm16 Wrote:  people in the military who are used to following everything they hear with no questions.

My husband was career military and he was as atheist as they come. Military folk are pretty used to keeping much about themselves in the closet, so that's why you get that impression. Both his sons are military and they are atheist also.

My guess would be that there are more atheists in the military than in civilian life. Especially among those who have seen combat.

Nothing like an injection of some very nasty reality to make you think. Those type situations force you to make a conscious choice, and people go one way or another.

But, personality and personal opinions have no place in the working environment in the military, so they shut up about it.

I know what you mean though, I knew he was atheist before I knew he was retired military, and I about fell off my chair. In my experience now, military folk are either very religious, or completely atheist. Extreme situations effect extreme positions.
like I said there are many exceptions, but what I have come to find are that most of the people I know became atheist around college, and from what I hear is going into the military usually strengthens the belief you had before you went in, and many go in before ever questioning their religions.
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03-03-2012, 06:45 PM
RE: Wife busted our cover at school
(03-03-2012 05:17 PM)hollowpointm16 Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 09:40 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-03-2012 02:51 AM)hollowpointm16 Wrote:  people in the military who are used to following everything they hear with no questions.

My husband was career military and he was as atheist as they come. Military folk are pretty used to keeping much about themselves in the closet, so that's why you get that impression. Both his sons are military and they are atheist also.

My guess would be that there are more atheists in the military than in civilian life. Especially among those who have seen combat.

Nothing like an injection of some very nasty reality to make you think. Those type situations force you to make a conscious choice, and people go one way or another.

But, personality and personal opinions have no place in the working environment in the military, so they shut up about it.

I know what you mean though, I knew he was atheist before I knew he was retired military, and I about fell off my chair. In my experience now, military folk are either very religious, or completely atheist. Extreme situations effect extreme positions.
like I said there are many exceptions, but what I have come to find are that most of the people I know became atheist around college, and from what I hear is going into the military usually strengthens the belief you had before you went in, and many go in before ever questioning their religions.

May be a generational thing. Literally every atheist I ever met in real life (not online) was and still is in the closet. The only reason I find out is because I do talk about my atheism when I find I like a person, because if they react in a way I don't like, I won't pursue the friendship. (Two basic conditions for becoming friends with me are that you have to have at least an open mind when it comes to religion, and my dog has to like you Smile )

I myself was devout catholic until at the age of ten I decided the bible was more like the brother's Grimm tales. My mom said she stopped believing during WW2, she was in her twenties then. She said dad had an epiphany when he was 50 something. They were all in the closet. My brother never believed a thing as long as he could think back, not even Santa. None of the people in my family told the others that they were atheist, both my parents didn't tell me until they were on their death bed. Dysfunctional? Probably, but in those days everyone was in the closet about it. And they believed in not pushing us kids in any direction at all. Which I am grateful for. I hate being pushed.

My husband was in the closet, as are his sons. All three raised catholic, all three became atheist in the military. When I asked my husband about his military experiences, he wouldn't talk about it but said it was so bad, that he realized that religion was just crap, and if there was a god, it wasn't anyone he liked.

I don't think people realize just how many closet atheists there are. Know any older people who don't go to church much? Holidays and family events don't count, people will put up with that for social reasons.

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04-03-2012, 12:23 AM
RE: Wife busted our cover at school
Hmm hard to say if your dog would like me, i work at a dog daycare and always smell like other dogs. It probably depends on how much he likes other dogs....so we may never be friends >.>

I see where you are coming from, for me though my parents are very religious. My parents teach college youth group at their church and if I talked about something the church claimed was evil my parents would always tell me to "be careful" or to stay away from it entirely. I was always told that even thinking about something that conflicted with religion was a good way to end up in hell. Due to this I didn't even start thinking for myself until I moved out, and even then I was really scared to do so. I spent about 5 years trying to justify my religion to myself, I couldn't go to church because I would hear things that conflicted with other things in the bible so I really shut myself in. One day about 5 months ago, after 2 years of really bad anxiety that mostly came from religion I had enough and said fuck it all I don't believe in god. I am 25 years old. If I went into the military right out of highschool I would probably still be a christian because I would believe that I was were god wanted me to be. My lack of direction is what started my doubt in the first place.
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04-03-2012, 07:42 AM
RE: Wife busted our cover at school
(04-03-2012 12:23 AM)hollowpointm16 Wrote:  Hmm hard to say if your dog would like me, i work at a dog daycare and always smell like other dogs. It probably depends on how much he likes other dogs....so we may never be friends >.>

I see where you are coming from, for me though my parents are very religious. My parents teach college youth group at their church and if I talked about something the church claimed was evil my parents would always tell me to "be careful" or to stay away from it entirely. I was always told that even thinking about something that conflicted with religion was a good way to end up in hell. Due to this I didn't even start thinking for myself until I moved out, and even then I was really scared to do so. I spent about 5 years trying to justify my religion to myself, I couldn't go to church because I would hear things that conflicted with other things in the bible so I really shut myself in. One day about 5 months ago, after 2 years of really bad anxiety that mostly came from religion I had enough and said fuck it all I don't believe in god. I am 25 years old. If I went into the military right out of highschool I would probably still be a christian because I would believe that I was were god wanted me to be. My lack of direction is what started my doubt in the first place.

My dog would likely find you very interesting - a person who rolled in dogs to disguise it's scent. Smile (I assume everyone knows, that, given half a chance, dogs will roll in heavily scented stuff to disguise their scent, most often in the excrement of prey)

If you had gone into the military - you don't know what would have happened. If you have an inquisitve mind, it will examine things no matter what situation you find yourself in. Sooner or later, you would have arrived at the truth.

Atheists come from all walks of life and can start thinking clearly at any age and in any situation.

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05-03-2012, 07:32 PM
RE: Wife busted our cover at school
Apologize for jumping in late here but just wanted to make a point on the military and religion: the military absolutely pushes a religious agenda. They have received a lot of unwanted attention over this and have worked to reduce the influence (or at least the public perception on it) but religion absolutely plays a part in military culture. And I think it is fairly obvious as to why that would be. People who think they will be rewarded in the afterlife are more likely not to be afraid of combat. People who can be convinced they are doing God's work or that God is on their side are far less likely to question orders or the morality of what they are being told to do.

You can do a quick google search and find some interesting stories on this. For example, last year, I think over the summer, there were several stories about how the military was using Bible passages, both new and old testament, to justify nuclear war to the people who had to launch them. They were also using the Bible and people talking about how faith saved them to help soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan deal with depression and PTSD syndromes. That was up until 2009 or thereabouts.

There is no way of knowing how a stint in the military is going to impact any one individual and there are obviously atheists in the military. But, someone inclined to be a Christian, or any other religion, going into the military is not going to find any sort of active effort to dissuade them from those beliefs. Quite the opposite, I think.

And, keeping on topic, how an atheist would be treated if they "outed" themselves as an atheist in the military could be interesting. Our own Buddy Christ is a Vet so he probably has some views on this.

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05-03-2012, 07:53 PM
RE: Wife busted our cover at school
(05-03-2012 07:32 PM)BnW Wrote:  Apologize for jumping in late here but just wanted to make a point on the military and religion: the military absolutely pushes a religious agenda. They have received a lot of unwanted attention over this and have worked to reduce the influence (or at least the public perception on it) but religion absolutely plays a part in military culture. And I think it is fairly obvious as to why that would be. People who think they will be rewarded in the afterlife are more likely not to be afraid of combat. People who can be convinced they are doing God's work or that God is on their side are far less likely to question orders or the morality of what they are being told to do.

You can do a quick google search and find some interesting stories on this. For example, last year, I think over the summer, there were several stories about how the military was using Bible passages, both new and old testament, to justify nuclear war to the people who had to launch them. They were also using the Bible and people talking about how faith saved them to help soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan deal with depression and PTSD syndromes. That was up until 2009 or thereabouts.

There is no way of knowing how a stint in the military is going to impact any one individual and there are obviously atheists in the military. But, someone inclined to be a Christian, or any other religion, going into the military is not going to find any sort of active effort to dissuade them from those beliefs. Quite the opposite, I think.

And, keeping on topic, how an atheist would be treated if they "outed" themselves as an atheist in the military could be interesting. Our own Buddy Christ is a Vet so he probably has some views on this.

oh yes, the very small sample of 3 people I know were (and still are) totally closeted.

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05-03-2012, 08:40 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2012 12:12 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Wife busted our cover at school
(05-03-2012 07:32 PM)BnW Wrote:  And, keeping on topic, how an atheist would be treated if they "outed" themselves as an atheist in the military could be interesting.

Wasn't a problem for me in the USN back in 1981. When they asked what my religious affiliation was for my dog tags I just said "I don't believe in none." They put NO PREF next to it and we went about our business (I hear now they actually have ATHEIST as a category, think I'd still rather prefer NO PREF). The USN never gave a shit about my metaphysics, only thing they gave a shit about was how I did my job. It was about as secular and tolerant an organization as I can imagine (with the exception of ineptitude and incompetence which were never tolerated, I mean 'cause people could die and shit). Can't ever recall anyone explicitly giving a shit once about race, ethnicity, religion, gender, or sexual preference either. ... Well, other than the submariner joke where 150 men go down for 3 months and 75 couples come back. Smile

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