Wife is believe, I am not...
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11-03-2015, 07:01 PM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
Perhaps this is not the person you should be spending your life with. I hate to come off like a dick, but honestly...didn't either of you consider your wildly different views before you got married?

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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11-03-2015, 07:09 PM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
(11-03-2015 10:10 AM)ShocKNursE Wrote:  "I'm sad because I you will be in hell and I'll be in heaven and I can't deal with that"

I've said it too many times to type it out again...

"Tell her not to worry about that. We can't force ourselves to believe something, that is impossible. Can't force ourselves to believe in mermaids and goblins and fairies. Even if we pretended to believe in god, an omniscient being would know it's a charade. However, if god is all powerful and all knowing, he KNOWS that it is impossible for you to believe without proof. He knows what would allow you to believe. And he is capable of giving you the evidence you require. Because you're supposedly one of his creations, he MADE you this way, knowing you would be incapable of belief at this point in your life. Just live your life and don't be a dick. Since belief isn't a choice, and he made you the way you are, he can't really punish you for something that's not your fault. So he will either:

A) Give you sufficient evidence to believe.
B) Forgive you upon your death.
C) Punish you upon death

In the case where he punishes you (even though he knows what you need to believe and can provide it), he's not worthy of worship. If he would punish you in that situation, he's just a despicable cunt... And would DEFINITELY also punish those who wear mixed fabrics, trim their sideburns, etc.. So even in scenario C, you'll likely still be with your family. Tongue"
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11-03-2015, 08:38 PM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
Your being a good person that she loves, who is also condemned to hell by the god she thinks she should love, may be causing her some pretty unbearable cognitive dissonance.

For years my wife believed while I didn't. It was definitely a wedge between us, and our relationship is miles better now that she doesn't believe. Honestly, if she was still a believer, I'd probably be hooking up on the side with an atheist by now, just for the compatibility. If she is compelling you to go to church and bringing up hell, I second the vote for condoms until you two have something worked out.
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13-03-2015, 03:31 AM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
(11-03-2015 10:10 AM)ShocKNursE Wrote:  Hey gang. First post and excited to be here.

My wife is a pharmacist and very smart, educated woman. That being said, she clings to the archaic belief in a god of the universe. I am a nurse and have worked in research and regulatory at a Fortune 500 pharmaceutical company. I am an atheist. Needless to say, this has caused issues.

From the get go, conversations about this have resulted in her crying and saying something to the effect of "I'm sad because I you will be in hell and I'll be in heaven and I can't deal with that". Whatever.

I reluctantly agreed to start attending church to placate her and ease her fears. I think she thinks that I'm not at least open to the idea (to be clear...I am not), but at this point I'm just happy that she's not pestering me.

I would love nothing more than to tell her my true feelings about this. On one hand, I am optimistic that I can use the year of attending church in my favor and say that I at least tried to understand. My fear is that she is going to 1.) ignore all arguments to support the case for atheism, 2.) start spouting logical fallacies that I'll be forced to point out, and 3.) threaten me with leaving b/c she needs someone that can support her in her faith and be the "spiritual head of the household" or some bullshit.

Any thoughts?
From my christian perspective: Tell her that going to church isnt going to help you. There is nothing you will ever learn from church. Sad but true. Tell her that really it is up to God he tells us not to worry about who goes to heaven and who doesn't that he is a just and fair God and that he will judge you fairly. Tell her all she can do is pray for your eyes to be opened to what she sees. As someone pointed out God knows what it will take for you to listen to him. And if she does any of your three fears then she is a blind and untrue christian in need of some critical thinking skills and some more time reading her bible. Also she should not even ask you to go to church with her more than once as its doing more harm than good.
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24-03-2015, 10:40 AM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
Thanks to everyone for their comments.

First off - I apologize for my terrible grammar and spelling in my OP. Wow. Where is the edit button?!? It must have been really early or really late when I first posted.

To address some general themes:
- The issue of faith didn't come up much when we were "courting". Personally, there are/were more important things to discuss during these formative interactions. Just my opinion.
- She doesn't bombard me with religious-speak or scripture quoting. One poster was dead on: It doesn't affect who feeds the dog, does the laundry, cooks dinner or wrangles the kids. Again...more important things than Jesus and worrying about whether I'm pissing him off.
- I think that we can co-exist and be happy without all that stuff. Our day-to-day interactions don't revolve around church. We don't belong to a "life group", our friends are a mixed bag of believers and non-believers, and at the end of the day, we have bigger fish to fry.

Thanks again for the comments and thanks for that book recommendation.
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24-03-2015, 11:07 AM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
another book to consider is Dale McGowan's In Faith and In Doubt

http://dalemcgowan.com

its for people in "mixed" marriages....believer/nonbeliever.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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24-03-2015, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2015 11:37 AM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
(24-03-2015 10:40 AM)ShocKNursE Wrote:  Thanks to everyone for their comments.

First off - I apologize for my terrible grammar and spelling in my OP. Wow. Where is the edit button?!? It must have been really early or really late when I first posted.

To address some general themes:
- The issue of faith didn't come up much when we were "courting". Personally, there are/were more important things to discuss during these formative interactions. Just my opinion.
- She doesn't bombard me with religious-speak or scripture quoting. One poster was dead on: It doesn't affect who feeds the dog, does the laundry, cooks dinner or wrangles the kids. Again...more important things than Jesus and worrying about whether I'm pissing him off.
- I think that we can co-exist and be happy without all that stuff. Our day-to-day interactions don't revolve around church. We don't belong to a "life group", our friends are a mixed bag of believers and non-believers, and at the end of the day, we have bigger fish to fry.

Thanks again for the comments and thanks for that book recommendation.

Best of luck Shock, if it isn't a negative catalyst for your relationship, don't let it become one. I do highly recommend that book though as well as these for your personal reading if you so desire...

These are my favorite go to sources:

(to understand ones opponent is to defeat them Smile )Xtian:

Boadt, L. (1984) Reading the Old Testament: An Introduction. New York. Paulist Press. (outstanding book, it takes great pains to be forensically accurate, to a fault, and as such, becomes a great weapon to discredit the OT)

Lieu, Samuel N. C., and Montserrat, Dominic, Constantine: History, Historiography, and Legend. London: Routledge, 2002. Print.

O'Collins, Gerald, Christology: A Biblical, Historical, and Systematic Study of Jesus. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2009. Print.

Mueller, J.J., Theological Foundations: Concepts and Methods for Understanding the Christian Faith. Winona: Anselm Academic, Christian Brothers Publications, 2011. Print.

Albl, Martin C. Reason, Faith, and Tradition: Explorations in Catholic Theology. Winona: Anselm Academic, Christian Brothers Publications, 2009. Print.

Stewart, Cynthia., The Catholic church: a brief popular history. Winona, Mn: Anselm Academic, Christian Brothers Publications, 2008. Print.

The Catholic Study Bible: The New American Bible 2nd ed. Oxford: Oxford University press, Inc., 2011. Print.

Moule, C. F. D., The birth of the New Testament. New York: Harper & Row, 1962. Print.

Mattison, Mark. “The Meaning of the Atonement.” Mark Mattison. 1987. Web. Retrieved from http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/openhse/atonement.html

Anselm, Evans, G. R., The Major Works. New York: Oxford University Press, Inc, 1998. Print.

Visser, Sandra and Williams, Thomas, Anselm. New York: Oxford University Press, Inc, 2009. Print.

Murray, John, The Atonement. Evansville: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1976. Print.

Dawson, Gerrit S. Jesus Ascended: The Meaning of Christ’s Continuing Incarnation. New Jersey: P&R publishing, 2004. Print.



Atheist (all of these are fantastic books):

Ehrman, Bart. Misquoting Jesus: The story behind who changed the bible and why. New York, Harper Collins. 2005. Print.

Carrier, Richard, On the historicity of jesus: why we might have reason for doubt. Sheffield, England: Sheffield Phoenix press, 2014. Print.

Wells, S. (2013) The skeptics annotated Bible. New York. SAB Books, LLC.

Hitchens, Christopher. God is not great: How religion poisons everything. New York, Hatchette Book Group inc. 2009. Print.

Hitchens, Christopher. Hitch 22: A memoir. New York, Hatchette Book Group inc. 2010. Print.

Hitchens, Christopher. The portable atheist: essential readings for the nonbeliever. Philadelphia, PA., Da Capo Press. 2007. Print.

Boghossian, Peter. A manual for creating atheists. Durham, NC. Pitchstone Publishing. 2013. Print.

Barker, Dan. Godless: how an evangelical preacher became one of america's leading atheists. Berkeley, CA. Bang Printing. 2008. Print.

Crossman, J. D. The power of parable: How fiction by jesus became fiction about jesus. New York. Harper Collins Publishers. 2012. Print.

Mills, David. Atheist Universe: The thinking person's answer to christian fundamentalism, makes the case against intelligent design. Berkeley, CA. Bang Printing. 2006. Print.

Pessin, Andrew. The god question: What famous thinkers from plato to dawkins have said about the divine. Oxford, England. Oneworld Publications. 2009. Print.

Bierlein, J.F. Parallel Myths: A fascinating look at the common threads woven through the world's greatest myths-and the central role they have played through time. New York. Ballantine Publishing Group. 1994. Print.

Helms, Randel. Gospel fictions. New York. Prometheus Books. 1988. Print.


Neutral (sociologist)
Zuckerman, Phil. Society without god. New York. New York University press. 2008. Print.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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24-03-2015, 11:18 AM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
Quote:I reluctantly agreed to start attending church to placate her and ease her fears.


Just understand that you have set a pattern for caving to her emotional blackmail. Get used to it. It won't be the last time.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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24-03-2015, 11:26 AM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
If she continues to force her belief on you I would point out that you have made all the concessions and she has made none. Sounds like it's time to 'man up' and stand your ground. After all, if she wants a religious husband that's what he would do. If all else fails show her the scripture that tells her to shut up and not talk to a man about the will of god. After that, get a lawyer....

Liberty loving, gun owning Atheist. Don't worry it confuses the right as well.
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25-03-2015, 08:31 AM
RE: Wife is believe, I am not...
(24-03-2015 11:18 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:I reluctantly agreed to start attending church to placate her and ease her fears.


Just understand that you have set a pattern for caving to her emotional blackmail. Get used to it. It won't be the last time.

That is marriage right?? Sadcryface
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