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Will America become a fascist regime?
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02-02-2017, 05:42 PM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
We're well on our way!

[Image: Signs+of+Fascism.jpg]

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02-02-2017, 05:46 PM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
(09-11-2016 09:44 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  There will be no Adolf Trump dictatorship.
The political system as well as the economy is far better off than it was in Italy/Germany in the (late) 20s.

Italics mine.

Sorry, the highlighted statement is incorrect.

In today's terms, Germany owed $768 billion after WWI.

America currently owes 163 trillion dollars to China.

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02-02-2017, 05:51 PM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
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03-02-2017, 02:06 AM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2017 07:46 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
(02-02-2017 04:40 PM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  Well, when defining Fascist or Fascism by goggle it comes up with.

Fascist: Associated with Fascism
Fascism: an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization

Noted that they say 'right wing'. Considering that only the right wing system can be corrupted.

Hardly, left side easily can go into marxism and make rehash of USSR. It could even be called fascist by above mentioned definition as Soviet bloc countries weren't free of nationalism which started to creep in as soon as Russian civil war [Orlando Figes, A People's Tragedy: The Russian Revolution: 1891–1924]

Quote: I'm not taking politic sides here, Democrats have done things horrible. Hillary vs Trump is one of these things. And the Republicans are not clean either, in fact they have more dirt then the Democrats.

However, Fascist leaders do plenty of things, one being they control the outlet of source material in order to keep the power. Lying and manipulating all forms of information would fall under this. Both the right and left do this, but notice the definition only quotes as the 'right wing' being the only ones that do this. Don't get me wrong the right wingers do this too much to count. But you have to remember by definition the ones who wrote this definition are 'controlling forms of information'

Kind of scary when you think about it that way.

Fascism has more than one definition - a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. Nothing about right-wing here.

One could say that dictatorships of XX century blended right and left wing themes in them. In result in marxism-leninism we had nationalism and in national socialism we had well, socialism.

Also people who wrote this definition control shit by writing it if this definition isn't only one allowed. For me it is flawed and too wide.

Quote:Another would be all the examples of Hitler and Mussolini. These are good examples.

Of what?

Quote:But remember control can happen any where, even in the nicest of people and places you'll find some form of corruption.

Control is happening everywhere as gov has hand in daily lives of citizens by way of making laws. However the notion of nazism or fascism that could happen everywhere is laughable - both Hitler and Mussolini needed specific conditions. It is likely that without economical crisis Hitler would remain another tool screaming in beer-houses. In a way you're right though - dictatorship can happen in any place but no sooner that specific conditions are in place.

Also corruption does not equal fascism even if in dictatorial regimes corruption is abound.

Quote:These people were Fascist but in two different ways.

One was fascist second was nazi. Your definition is hardly suitable to serious discussion as it makes fascism as another word for dictatorship.

Quote:Hitler for one didn't want to deal with foreign polices as he with drew Germany form the league of nations.

LoN was joke. Also I guess Anglo-German Naval Agreement was a sign of him not wanting to deal with foreign policy? Just like his non-aggression pact with Poland, deal with Italy, or taking part in Spanish Civil War?

Quote:Mussolini was very open for foreign polices and seeked opportunities in it.

Examples would be nice. I maybe wouldn't call him very open but in this you're right.

Quote:Though both rose the power the same way, and same racist ideology, Fascist people come in all shapes and sizes.

So Hitler marched on Berlin and king decided to let him rule?

It's true that Hitler wanted to emulate Mussolini march on Rome but he failed in this so he choose another way of gaining power, which probably would still amount to shit if not elites co-opting him to power.

Quote:List according to Wikipedia of Fascist leaders: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fascist_movements

Don't see much relevance in this list. Sure there were "fascist" movements in many countries but so what?

Quote:Not the best sight, but here is another sight: http://departments.kings.edu/history/20c/fascism.html

It's simplistic. In common parlance fascism may be catch all term for dictatorial regimes, in serious discussion more in depth take is required.

Quote:So, conclusion, possibility of America becoming Fascist: Very likely even the best of nations have faced this at some point in history.

Something happening in the past does not make it very likely to occur now in different times and different country. That does not mean that some form of authoritarian or fascist rule isn't possible in USA but I much doubt that it is very likely.

Quote:Possibility of it being Right wing parity: Likely also.
Possibility of it being Left wing part: Likely also.
An even 50 -50 on that, no one is without that one asshat who takes all the power for themselves 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely.'

Said asshat need massive support to take this sort of power and even then he doesn't exactly wield it alone. Just think what power over dictator have his underlings who control flow of information, even if they do it with good intentions.

Quote:To summaries without another long explanation (LOL) he blames a group of people and out right shows a racist ideology. He tries to control forms of information (One such being silencing evidence for climate change) briefly shows that the use of military is a way to dominate a race EX: bombing the middle east for 'ISIS' when we have no idea who is ISIS and who isn't. (Vietnam people, we didn't know our enemy). And finally, by that second link I gave you, 'our race is better then your race' idea is shown in his speeches.

Bombing the Middle East with intention of going after ISIS isn't something that I would call racist.

Quote:Keep in mind this, you wouldn't know we had a Fascist leader until it's too late. Because Fascism is designed to get by unnoticed until the damage has been done. It happened with these other countries and nations and it could happen to America.

Hitler hardly kept his intentions hidden and if I'm not mistaken same was with Mussolini. Sure, they didn't said all about what they do but fascism does not sneak unnoticed. Fascism announce itself but it is taken as a part of political game, or propaganda for the masses.

ETA: Philippe Burrin in his Fascism, nationalism, authoritarianism claims that fascism and nazism are kindred, not the same. It seems that his view is shared by Richard Bessel redactor of Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany: Comparisons and Contrasts but that's all that I get from free excerpt. Most fundamental difference would be degree of racism and eugenics, more extreme in Reich.

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03-02-2017, 05:11 AM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
(03-02-2017 02:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  "Historically accurate, yet long post deleted.

The above post is why Szuchow is one of the members here I most respect.

From my knowledge of history, he has been both accurate and surprising. I've learned much from this young man.

I believe, and may be wrong, that he understands what Nietzsche referred to as The eternal recurrence", that history has patterns. Patterns similar to a race track. Round and round.....

Respect, my friend. Bowing

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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03-02-2017, 05:20 AM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
(03-02-2017 05:11 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 02:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  "Historically accurate, yet long post deleted.

The above post is why Szuchow is one of the members here I most respect.

From my knowledge of history, he has been both accurate and surprising. I've learned much from this young man.

I believe, and may be wrong, that he understands what Nietzsche referred to as The eternal recurrence", that history has patterns. Patterns similar to a race track. Round and round.....

Respect, my friend. Bowing

Thank you.

I'm still not at the level of Goethe Mephistopheles who could accurately say Omniscient am I not, yet many things I know.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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03-02-2017, 06:00 AM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
(09-11-2016 08:10 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Check the scoreboard. Republicans control both chambers of congress and soon the Supreme Court. And read Paul Ryan's CNN article. Congress is going to adopt Trump's plans. It's practically the GOP platform now. They have complete control.

I'm not sure whether you're joking with these claims or not, or simply trolling, but they're laughably wrong.

I've posted the actual Rep v. Dem numbers elsewhere previously, and they're not that shithot for the GOP. Whilst they have a majority in both houses, it's a pretty slim one, particularly in the Senate—by only 2 seats. And bear in mind that even some of the rusted-on Reps are getting antsy with Drumpf, even after only 10 days.

In ten months they'll undoubtedly be wishing the orange grub would just curl up and die LOL.

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03-02-2017, 06:40 AM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
(02-02-2017 05:46 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(09-11-2016 09:44 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  There will be no Adolf Trump dictatorship.
The political system as well as the economy is far better off than it was in Italy/Germany in the (late) 20s.

Italics mine.

Sorry, the highlighted statement is incorrect.

In today's terms, Germany owed $768 billion after WWI.

America currently owes 163 trillion dollars to China.

This may technically true, but Germany had just recovered from a hyper-inflation. It also (like everybody else) suffered from the great depression. Both things that the USA of today luckily doesnt have to deal with.
I admit however to not ecactly know how much both these situations are comparable, since the circumstances are quite different.
In the 20s, people were still adjusting to just having lost the gold standard, so everybody owing everybody else tons of (virtual) money was much more of an issue than nowadays, where noone loses sweat about the number you have given, because everybody was thinking of having some real goods behind those numbers (like "how much caol do we have to export to make 700bio?"). Nowadays trillons and trillions of dollars are *generated* and *destroyed* every day with pencils. Noone gives a shit if there are some real values connected to this. At least thats my interpretation of todays sitation. I am not very firm with economy and financial business. Particularly the latter makes me wanna shower too often when i think about it. Tongue

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03-02-2017, 07:10 AM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
It won't be fascist, but its institutions will continue to be eroded and become purely ceremonial. For example conflict of interest for public office is no longer a thing. A leader can now use his public position to enrich himself not unlike a Mobutu Sese Seko. It won't be long before people like Bernie Madoff start running for office instead of going to prison.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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03-02-2017, 08:02 AM
RE: Will America become a fascist regime?
We're more likely to fracture. If that were to happen I imagine some of those fractures would be definable as fascist, some not.

And for the record, as a percentage of GDP our debt is about the same as Australia's and about 1/5 of the UK's.

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