Will religion ever be a non issue?
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28-04-2012, 08:09 PM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
(28-04-2012 07:30 PM)Hamata k Wrote:  
(28-04-2012 07:28 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I vote that it will no longer be a problem due to God revealing himself beginning sometime in the next year.

Gary
I tried that awhile ago....I didn't really work.

(28-04-2012 08:02 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  
(28-04-2012 07:30 PM)Hamata k Wrote:  I tried that awhile ago....I didn't really work.
tried what?
I tried reveling myself. It didn't work.

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28-04-2012, 08:10 PM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
(28-04-2012 08:09 PM)Hamata k Wrote:  
(28-04-2012 07:30 PM)Hamata k Wrote:  I tried that awhile ago....I didn't really work.

(28-04-2012 08:02 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  tried what?
I tried reveling myself. It didn't work.
Men get locked up for revealing themselves I don't suggest it. Especially to kids.

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28-04-2012, 08:15 PM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
(28-04-2012 08:09 PM)Hamata k Wrote:  
(28-04-2012 07:30 PM)Hamata k Wrote:  I tried that awhile ago....I didn't really work.

(28-04-2012 08:02 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  tried what?
I tried reveling myself. It didn't work.
I missed your humor the first time around....Got it now...laughed...what now? Tongue

Gary
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28-04-2012, 08:22 PM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
(28-04-2012 07:28 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  I vote that it will no longer be a problem due to God revealing himself beginning sometime in the next year.

Gary
That... would be the point at which you'd have enough evidence to rationally believe. Until then, you're in the same camp as every other doomsday prophet, of which not a single one has ever made a correct prediction. Good luck for your prediction, though. I'm sure you're the exception to the rule.

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28-04-2012, 08:22 PM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
(28-04-2012 08:02 PM)gdemoss Wrote:  
(28-04-2012 07:30 PM)Hamata k Wrote:  I tried that awhile ago....I didn't really work.
tried what?


Gary, he's joking. He tried revealing himself...

I think there will be a complete separation of religion and state. I think atheists won't have to feel persecuted aymore, same as gays. Today's youth is paving the way by being a lot more outspoken about atheism. When I was their age, gays just started to speak out. Same societal evolution, different topic.

There is room for everyone, and I think the religions will survive. They may have to adapt some things as overpopulation finally overtakes us.

I think atheists are perfectly fine with theists as long as no one tries to shove their religion down other people's throats. I think (I hope?) live and let live will be the motto.

And if Gary is right and god reveals himself next year - well that puts the issue at rest also.

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28-04-2012, 09:42 PM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
I think that the problem in the USA actually is the separation of church and state.
It has meant that the churches, not funded by the state, have had to take on private sector techniques in order to survive.
In the constitution-free UK, where dear old queenie is the head of both church and state (in a benevolent dictatorship kinda way rather than in a totalitarian kinda way), the church has been relegated to ceremonial engagements and free-therapy sessions on Sundays.
Religion has, as with the Jewish tradition, become just that... tradition only. Kinda quaint and reassuring for us monkey-brained animals.
Let's do the maths:
If we take the decline of religious power (or at least recognition that the monarch was not divine) from the Magna Carta, 1215, that's 800 years to get to the "tick the christian box" kinda religion.
So maybe another 800 years before kids will learn about christianity and have the same reaction as we do when we learn about Zeus, Thor etc.
There may be some milestones i.e. 50 years before we stop labelling kids as e.g. christian or muslim babies cos of their family ties (a bit like most people have stopped referring to people by their skin colour or their sexuality).
If we make a parallel between the US constitution and the UK Magna Carta then the USA will get to the UK religious-apathy levels a little before 600 years from now.
Be patient!
Alternatively another option would be to learn from the major successful churches themselves ... forced conversion to Atheism, heresy trials for those that refuse or if that is too much effort... genocide (in IT we would call that the Phased Roll-out vs the Big Bang approach)

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28-04-2012, 09:51 PM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
The day it does happen all human beings will be deceased. Religion is such a great platform for acts of evil that I believe we will end our species because of such a ridiculous amount of hate that shouldn't even exists. By the chance religion can be calmed I would believe it could be a non issue in the very distant future. Hopefully moderate theists and atheists can make it so.

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29-04-2012, 12:15 AM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
I’d like to see an end not to religion as such, but more to the power it holds. I would dearly love them to lose the tax free status they enjoy as the money they make is often from those who can’t afford it and is in turn often topped up by government agencies.

They also need to stay out of politics totally, we have some cult down here who won’t vote as it’s against their beliefs but still gave $50k to the National party?! And we need more people making stupid laws up like we need holes in our heads.

While they’re staying out of things they can stay out of education, it’s a personal thing and shouldn’t impact others.

I can see religion ending, there will always be a few pockets of diehard militants but all things end eventually.

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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29-04-2012, 02:37 AM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2012 04:23 AM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
Let's not forget that we create our own futures, which is why I try to be a proactive atheist.


Here is my spiel on the future of Christianity.


Christianity, not having been built on a foundation of truth, compromises international relations, promotes immoral prejudices, gives license to churches to brutalize humankind and divide society, damages the psychological health of individuals, and has no proven benefit in bettering the health of society at large. It is quite clearly a serious obstacle to peace, happiness, and health. It is clear to me, and millions of others, that the world would be a more righteous and safer place if this practice disappeared. We all know that will never happen overnight.


Some people would temporarily have a deep-seated feeling of loss, but ultimately they would be happier and healthier, particularly if they gave up the habit of praying and embraced their fellow humans instead.


Imagine the peace! Picture the proceeds from the sale of all property and investments of the world’s churches going into a worldwide fund to improve health and education. The only people who would suffer any long-term consequences would be bean counters and clergy, who would lose their jobs, income and status.


Christian practice and influence has faded over the last four centuries in most of the better-educated parts of the world. This is due to brave humanists and scientists who have refused to be silent when hounded by churches, often putting their lives in danger by doing so. If you had written or been reading this prior to the about the seventeenth century you would be in danger of being burned at the stake.


If it hadn’t been for ethical people opposing church domination, the Western world might still be living in the squalor and ignorance of the Dark Ages because churches have always opposed scientific progress and secular learning, and they still haven’t quite got out of the habit. Science and secular education inevitably undermines the mythical nonsense churches promote.


The struggle to free humanity from Christianity is far from over. People all over the world have had their heads filled with Christian beliefs and prejudices. Children are still singing hymns and being taught about devils, angels and creationism, in school. Evangelical churches run by businessmen and Catholic churches ruled over by an out-of-touch hierarchy are still milking the market. Countless people are still paying lip service to the existence of the Christian God and are passively accepting biblical ethics. As a result, wars that have their roots in religious intolerance are still being waged, homosexuals are regarded as second-rate citizens, women are denied the same voice and opportunities as men, and scientific advances such as stem cell research and
genetic engineering are being opposed. People turn to prayer rather than to each other, and feel guilty about their own sexuality and other imaginary sins. What a travesty against the human spirit! Some churches are still trying to fill their pews with more little Christians by denying people the use of oral contraceptives and condoms, despite the fact that some countries are ravaged with AIDS. Priests don’t have to change diapers, nurse slowly dying relatives, or pay for expensive medicines.
These are powerful reasons why people who care about the state of the world should not be apathetic about the power of churches.



We can change this. People of reason, education, and intelligence should openly discuss the lies and immorality in the Bible so that more people are disabused of the myth that it is a good book that contains the word of God. Christians are entitled to genuine respect. Many of them are beautiful people with admirable intentions who have, unfortunately, been brainwashed. Their essential humanity is still there, although suffocated by churches who have interests other than the commonwealth of man in mind. These Christians should be constructively challenged when their more problematic prejudices are promoted as truth.


We should never support Christian institutions by going to church.


All people should vehemently oppose the tax-free status of Church’s incomes, because tax-paying secularists are, in effect, subsidizing churches that don’t pay tax.


The large numbers of innocent children still being indoctrinated with Christian beliefs is an unfortunate reality. There is not
much a concerned person can or should directly do about this. We cannot change the world overnight, and children are not pawns to be played with by filling their heads with our opinions. We should educate our own children about religion in an unbiased fashion and in secular schools. Most children in our modern world are no longer isolated, so they will, in the fullness of time, be exposed to secular thought.



We might strive to genuinely respect all people regardless of their gender, their religious beliefs, or their sexual inclination. We should make a stand against racism. Let’s make genuine, unprejudiced empathy the basis of our relations with our fellow men. Let’s use science and rational thought, not faith, to give us direction.


This means opposing Christian dogma, but not overtly attacking our moderate Christian neighbors, whom we should try not to offend. It is the Christian who doesn’t derive his income or his social status from Christianity who is most likely to be open to change.


Surely, as the decades roll by, all the world will become better informed and Christianity will be regarded by most as a dirty word. There will come a time when the great majority will realize the ludicrousness of this invented religion, and will shrug it off as nonsense. Christianity will no longer be thought of as a doctrine that promotes admirable ideals, but as an unhealthy and immoral theory promoted by greedy churches in their own interests. The sooner this happens, the better. I think Christianity will become socially unacceptable in the same way smoking, homophobia, sexism and high fructose corn syrup are becoming unacceptable in most modern communities today.


Christianity is fading away in Europe, Canada and Australia. Let’s hope something similar happens in the Muslim world, so that Islam loses its power too, but we should set a powerful example by sweeping out our own front porch first.


Changing the norms of society might seem like a daunting, if not impossible, task, yet it has happened throughout history. Sometimes it takes a real upheaval to make things happen, like the industrial revolution, World War II, or the fall of communism. If, for example, the reputation of the Vatican were to completely disintegrate under the weight of scandals, the world would be emancipated from a powerful fountainhead of evil.


Sometimes change is initiated by inspiring people like Florence Nightingale, Emmeline Pankhurst, Martin Luther King, Harvey Milk and Christopher Hitchens to name just a few. These people were visionaries. They give us the example to voice our own dissatisfaction with the way things are. I think each of us should try to emulate their bravery.



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29-04-2012, 06:07 AM
RE: Will religion ever be a non issue?
Religion is a plague... tormenting humanity for all time.... religion will die when humanity becomes extinct.
The idea of some saving grace of a divine god is wishful thinking.. there is no hope.. no afterlife... Religion has been and always will be the product of human imangination.
If you theists know otherwise... prove it... you can't... so STFU!

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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