"With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
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30-12-2014, 04:12 PM
"With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

Just curious about this. I have had multiple arguments where I use this, although it is argued back that;

"Although not in the name of atheism, secular people can do wrong acts too" and "Good people do evil acts as well, so what's your point?"

What do people think about these counter arguments?
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30-12-2014, 05:30 PM
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
Everybody does good and bad. It's because we do bad that we need Christ. But we'd need Christ anyway, because doing good won't get us to heaven. This fixation atheists have with good and bad is ridiculous anyway. If there is no God, then good and bad don't matter--just the impulse to survive and reproduce.
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30-12-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
Secular people usually need to have a damn good reason to do bad (or a mental condition like schizophrenia or sociopathy).

Religious people don't, they just need the word of god.

"I don't mind being wrong...it's a time I get to learn something new..."
Me.
N.B: I routinely make edits to posts to correct grammar or spelling, or to restate a point more clearly. I only notify edits if they materially change meaning.
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30-12-2014, 05:49 PM
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
Blindly following any religion or ideology will inevitably lead to immoral acts.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-12-2014, 06:00 PM
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
Is just a quotable saying - IMO there must be plenty of exceptions. Certainly in a conflict situation it's helluva handy if the other side eat their eggs starting at the big end and your troops think it righteous and just to start at the small end.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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30-12-2014, 06:08 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2014 06:27 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
(30-12-2014 05:30 PM)Gordon Wrote:  Everybody does good and bad. It's because we do bad that we need Christ. But we'd need Christ anyway, because doing good won't get us to heaven. This fixation atheists have with good and bad is ridiculous anyway. If there is no God, then good and bad don't matter--just the impulse to survive and reproduce.

Morality doesn't come from the gods.
There ain't no fucking Jebus Christ.
Nonbelievers do good all the time.
There are no gods.
Just because you have no complex set of motivations, doesn't mean everyone does.
Stop spamming TTA with your idiotic childish drivel, Gordo.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-12-2014, 06:20 PM
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
(30-12-2014 04:12 PM)victormarte Wrote:  “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”

Just curious about this. I have had multiple arguments where I use this, although it is argued back that;

"Although not in the name of atheism, secular people can do wrong acts too" and "Good people do evil acts as well, so what's your point?"

What do people think about these counter arguments?

Let us look for a few examples in the Bible shall we? I know they’ll be hard to find (not).

Really, all you have to do is open the OT to just about any page and read what atrocities God commands his followers to do!

I think it would be safe to say that most of the people being instructed to rape, pillage and plunder would not have done so without express instructions from the Big Guy. Now, if they want to argue otherwise, that this was put in the Bible to justify land grabs by the authors then we can say the Bible is not the inspired word of God. Catch-22. Checkmate theists.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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30-12-2014, 06:25 PM
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
Quote:Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

Blaise Pascal



Weinberg was not the first to come up with the concept.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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30-12-2014, 06:36 PM
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
Don't agree with this concept of good people/bad people to their premise, so it's hard to say it's right.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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30-12-2014, 06:56 PM
RE: "With or without religion.." Quote. Is Weinberg wrong?
(30-12-2014 05:30 PM)Gordon Wrote:  This fixation atheists have with good and bad is ridiculous anyway. If there is no God, then good and bad don't matter--just the impulse to survive and reproduce.
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If "good and bad" didn't matter to atheists then why aren't the jails full of atheists as opposed to religionists?

Atheists makes up about 1 out of every 500 prisoners currently serving time in the US prison system.

The other 499 are believers in God.

Yes Gordon, we do indeed have a moral compass, and our compass is strong because we see reality and can judge it according to what is right and wrong with a clear mind, and sharp vision.

We do not need your book of horrors to guide us so that we commit the same crimes en masse as you religionists do.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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