Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
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18-06-2011, 02:21 AM
 
Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
For the showing, I say, of his [God's] righteousness at this present season: that he [God] might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. Romans 3.26.

The more that people see sin through God’s enlightenment, the more they are sorrowful for their sins, and the more they appreciate the grace of forgiveness. Yet there are people who always fear that God will not forgive because of the greatness of their sins, both in number and in gravity. Nay, they even go so far as to surmise that forgiveness will be too cheap should God really forgive them. All who embrace such wrong attitudes need to know the trustworthiness of forgiveness, for it is not without firm foundation.

Grace never reigns by itself, it reigns through righteousness (Rom. 5.21). Grace does not come directly to us, it comes to us indirectly through the cross. God does not forgive our sins because He pities us when He sees us repent, express regret, exhibit sorrow, and weep. No, God can never forgive on that basis. He must first judge our sins and then He forgives. A common notion held by many is that “grace and righteousness cannot both be preserved.” Yet all who have been taught by grace will declare that in forgiving our sins God has kept both grace and righteousness intact.

So what's the problem? Without denying self, no one can love the Lord.
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18-06-2011, 03:12 AM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
Have you forgotten to take your medication?
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18-06-2011, 03:53 AM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
So Parture, why couldn't your god just forgive unconditionally? Does he not make the rules?

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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18-06-2011, 08:49 AM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
Congratulations for having opinion nr 173.376.65 on how a deity works.

Observer

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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18-06-2011, 09:06 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2011 09:19 AM by ashley.hunt60.)
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
This is an atheist site. Thought you might want to know.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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18-06-2011, 09:18 AM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 02:21 AM)Parture Wrote:  He must first judge

I'm always doubtful of an all powerful deity that must do anything.

Of all the ideas put forth by science, it is the principle of Superposition that can undo any power of the gods. For the accumulation of smaller actions has the ability to create, destroy, and move the world.

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." -W. E. Henley
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18-06-2011, 12:54 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 02:21 AM)Parture Wrote:  For the showing, I say, of his [Flying Spaghetti Monster's] righteousness at this present season: that he [the Flying Spaghetti Monster] might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Pirates. Romans 3.26.

The more that people see sin through the Flying Spaghetti Monster’s noodly appendage, the more they are sorrowful for their sins, and the more they appreciate the grace of forgiveness. Yet there are people who always fear that the Flying Spaghetti Monster will not forgive because of the greatness of their sins, both in number and in gravity. Nay, they even go so far as to surmise that forgiveness will be too cheap should the Flying Spaghetti Monster really forgive them. All who embrace such wrong attitudes need to know the trustworthiness of forgiveness, for it is not without firm foundation.

Grace never reigns by itself, it reigns through meatballs (Rom. 5.21). Grace does not come directly to us, it comes to us indirectly through the pasta. The Flying Spaghetti Monster does not forgive our sins because He pities us when He sees us repent, express regret, exhibit sorrow, and weep. No, The Flying Spaghetti can never forgive on that basis. He must first judge our sins and then He forgives. A common notion held by many is that “grace and righteousness cannot both be preserved.” Yet all who have been taught by grace will declare that in forgiving our sins God has kept both grace and righteousness intact.

So what's the problem? Without denying self, no one can love the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Fixed.

The God excuse: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. "God did it." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. - George Carlin

Whenever I'm asked "What if you're wrong?", I always show the asker this video: http://youtu.be/iClejS8vWjo Screw Pascal's wager.
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18-06-2011, 01:54 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 12:54 PM)Efrx86 Wrote:  
(18-06-2011 02:21 AM)Parture Wrote:  ...The Flying Spaghetti can never forgive on that basis[/COLOR][/B]. He must first judge our sins and then He forgives. A common notion held by many is that “grace and righteousness cannot both be preserved.” Yet all who have been taught by grace will declare that in forgiving our sins God has kept both grace and righte...

Fixed.
oops...

Observer

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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18-06-2011, 02:45 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 03:53 AM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  So Parture, why couldn't your god just forgive unconditionally? Does he not make the rules?
God does forgive unconditionally by way of the cross. So the issue is not whether God forgives unconditionally but whether you receive His forgiveness by what He did for you on the cross by taking upon Himself the sins of the world.

Righeously all sin must be judged and is judged on the cross. What you want is forgiveness without judgment of that sin but that is unrighteous. You can't have the mercy of God without the righteousness of God.

Without the righteousness of God you are just being selfish.

(18-06-2011 12:54 PM)Efrx86 Wrote:  Without denying self, no one can love the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
You are entering another question: the question of who the uncreated Creator is? Is the uncreateated that has been proven God of the Bible or FSM?

Jesus has 45 sources of him within 150 years of His death, the most documented person in antiquity. Of those sources 17 of them are non-Christian too. We would expect the real God to prove Himself to us as we find in the proof of the resurrection of Jesus, but where is the evidence for FSM? How can God have lower standards than us? Why then have blind faith in FSM?

The original disciples gave their eyewitness testimony in various group settings for which there is no naturalistic explanation, therefore you can trust God of the Bible. Christianity is unique in that regard because only Christianity provides this substantial proof. Praise the Lord! Amen.

http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thre...8#pid35458
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18-06-2011, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2011 03:08 PM by Efrx86.)
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 01:54 PM)The_observer Wrote:  
(18-06-2011 12:54 PM)Efrx86 Wrote:  
(18-06-2011 02:21 AM)Parture Wrote:  ...The Flying Spaghetti can never forgive on that basis[/COLOR][/B]. He must first judge our sins and then He forgives. A common notion held by many is that “grace and righteousness cannot both be preserved.” Yet all who have been taught by grace will declare that in forgiving our sins God has kept both grace and righte...

Fixed.
oops...

dammit!
(18-06-2011 02:45 PM)Parture Wrote:  Jesus has 45 sources of him within 150 years of His death, the most documented person in antiquity.

He also had a lot of sources from before his birth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPYj4HPudCk&t=4m2s

The God excuse: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. "God did it." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. - George Carlin

Whenever I'm asked "What if you're wrong?", I always show the asker this video: http://youtu.be/iClejS8vWjo Screw Pascal's wager.
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