Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
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20-06-2011, 03:51 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(20-06-2011 03:45 PM)Parture Wrote:  Efrx86,

There are no resurrection accounts before Christ. Jesus is the first and the first to claim He was the creator of the universe. Praise the Lord!

WRONG!!!

Aclepius
Achilles
Alcmene
Castor
Heracles
Melicertes
Aristeas of Proconnesus
Osiris
Baal

Just a few people who were supposedly resurrected.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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20-06-2011, 03:59 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
hughsie,

Wrong! None of them were resurrected. Try again. Looks like it is time for you to watch Zeitgeist Refuted.



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20-06-2011, 04:14 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(20-06-2011 03:59 PM)Parture Wrote:  hughsie,

Wrong! None of them were resurrected. Try again. Looks like it is time for you to watch Zeitgeist Refuted.

Looks like the evidence disagrees with you.

Quote:Set fooled Osiris into getting into a box, which Set then shut, sealed with lead, and threw into the Nile (sarcophagi were based on[citation needed] the box in this myth). Osiris' wife, Isis, searched for his remains until she finally found him embedded in a tree trunk, which was holding up the roof of a palace in Byblos on the Phoenician coast. She managed to remove the coffin and open it, but Osiris was already dead. In one version of the myth, she used a spell learned from her father and brought him back to life so he could impregnate her. Afterwards he died again and she hid his body in the desert. Months later, she gave birth to Horus. While she raised Horus, Set was hunting one night and came across the body of Osiris. Enraged, he tore the body into fourteen pieces and scattered them throughout the land. Isis gathered up all the parts of the body, less the phallus (which was eaten by a catfish) and bandaged them together for a proper burial. The gods were impressed by the devotion of Isis and resurrected Osiris as the god of the underworld. Because of his death and resurrection, Osiris is associated with the flooding and retreating of the Nile and thus with the crops along the Nile valley.

Anyway, how does being the first to claim something automatically make it true?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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20-06-2011, 04:22 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
hughsie,

Being the first doesn't make it true. It only proves this was the first. The proof that it is true is that you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs, obviously since all naturalistic possiibilies have been shown to be impossible.
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20-06-2011, 04:25 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(20-06-2011 04:22 PM)Parture Wrote:  hughsie,

Being the first doesn't make it true. It only proves this was the first. The proof that it is true is that you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs, obviously since all naturalistic possiibilies have been shown to be impossible.

You're back to claiming '12 people 2000 years ago believed it ergo its true' which, as everyone has already said, is totally crap.

2000 years ago everyone believed that the world was flat, doesn't make it true. How many times do you need to hear this before it sinks in?

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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20-06-2011, 04:29 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
[Efrx86,

There were no sources before His birth,





The New 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible

Infinite Regress is Impossible
1. We observe trillions and trillions of cause and effects in nature, and no hard evidence something comes from nothing, which is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If there was an infinite regress you would have happened already having had an eternity do so. And you would never have existed because the past would continue to go on for eternity never reaching this point. As you can see, infinite regress in all its varieties (e.g. cycles, mutiverses) is inherently contradictory and therefore, false.

Something Can't Come From Nothing
2. Something can't come from nothing (non-existence) either, because that which does not exist can't cause anything. Nothing always leaves nothing from nothing. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms. In any process in an isolated system, the total energy remains the same. Since that which does not exist has no energy, it cannot produce a singularity for the universe. Many times I have heard atheists say, "The properties of the universe are different from the whole, so the composition doesn't abide in cause and effect when it was brought into being." Of course, this is doublespeak because for something to be "brought into being" requires a cause.

A Mind is Needed to Create a Mind
3. Since nature can't always have existed nor start up from nothing, there must exist that which is outside of nature, that is, outside of time and space which always existed. This is whom we call the uncreated Creator. If you want to compare an always existing timeless singularity to the uncreated Creator, simply observe what we know that that which doesn't have a mind, will, emotion, conscience, intuition, or self-consciousness can't produce that which does. The lesser can never produce the greater. There has not even been enough interatomic interactions in the history of the universe to be able to do so. If you claim time is needed to bring about this universe from a singularity but the singularity has no time then this universe would never have existed if a causeless singularity existed.

The Resurrection Proves Jesus is God
4. Now that we know the uncreated Creator exists, we can compare. A God who is accessible and personal is better than one that is not. Only in Christianity do we find God enters His creation and dies for the sins of the world and proves He is our Creator by resurrecting Himself from the dead which can only occur supernaturally. Since almost all skeptical scholars concede for good reasons the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings and there are no naturalistic explanations that can account for the origin of the disciples' beliefs (having exhausted them all), we should submit ourselves to this evidence, because if a person doesn't, they will surely go to Hell according to Jesus our Creator.
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20-06-2011, 04:45 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
More circle talk. Like a snake eating it's own tail.
I f you would like to get over this bullshit approach at proof and get down to the brass tax I'm open, but this shit is over for me. You speak in tongues of un-logic. It makes my ears bleed and my brain hemorrhage. How can anything you've written so far even make sense to you I can't understand it. I don't want to be mean so I have to bow out at this point, unless there is something new to be said.
Oh how sad I feel that I must let you feel as though you've won simply because of your insanity circle.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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20-06-2011, 04:49 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
lucradis,

You're avoiding dealing with the points shutting your mind down. That's your choice. You may not care for reality, but God does not care for your presence with His elect since you are unhealthy to be around.
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20-06-2011, 04:56 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
I wasn't being literal. Anyhow if anything is shutting my mind down it's your circle jerk.
Ah you. You made me post again, trickster. Ok I'm out for serious this time.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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20-06-2011, 05:08 PM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2011 05:23 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
This thread is still going on? I guess that's why Fox News is so popular, because willful ignorance is entertaining.

One:

Why do you keep posting anti-Zeitgeist movie rebuttals? No one mentioned Zeitgeist. Hughsie just mentioned gods who had used the resurrection story before Jesus. And you ran off and started refuting Zeitgeist, a movie that also claims that 9/11 was a conspiracy and that the reason we fought wars in the 20th century is because banking corporations were secretly running America.

There are dozens of stories about gods that resurrected, viewed by many eye witnesses, and yet you seem to ignore this fact while maintaining it as your "irrefutable" proof.


And two:

Your arguments are a sloppy recreation of Aquinas' outdated slop.

1. Fine, time began to exist at some point, probably along with existence, since the two are correlated.

2. I see that you've ignored my post about a Universe from Nothing.

3. This is just complete asserting nonsense. If something is outside of time and space, then it does not exist. And how could something outside of the natural realm affect the natural realm? I realize your mind is picturing God as this big floating person with a science kit, but if you actually think about your words, you should see how meaningless they are. A timeless, spaceless quality is a quality of nothingness.

4. Ah there it is. It's fun to try and guess how the theist is going to attempt to tie in his line of Deist logic with his Theist agenda at the end of the argument. "There is some force. Things cannot create themselves. Therefore a genocidal magician sent his zombie son (who was actually himself) to die arbitrarily in the attempt to relieve people who use telepathy to communicate with him of their affliction known as Sin which was created by the same person now trying to get you to reject it so that you won't go to eternal torture, which he also created for you. Perfect transition! Job accomplished!



I know I throw this accusation around a lot, but I believe that this is ShockofGod.

"The question that atheists can't answer" = "scholars concede that the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings and there are no naturalistic explanations"



One final thing before I stop attempting to find a logic penny in the fountain of childhood indoctrination byproduct. The reason that it's so obvious to everyone that the Judeo-Christian God doesn't exist?

Is because you KNOW, with absolute certainty, every minute detail about the desires and wants and preferences and secret meanings... of a being who supposedly exists outside of time and space. That's the best apart about having an imaginary friend; you can assign attributes to fill in the blanks whenever you need to. And all the people who claim to share your knowledge of this asshat called Jehovah... ALL have different claims than you. God wants this, no God wants this, don't be silly we all know God is like this.


I take my leave and suggest everyone else let this thread die, so Parture can get back to misinterpreting the Bible to suit his needs and continuing to base his belief system on what a group of people say they saw.


EDIT: Here's the rebuttals to the Aquinas arguments that you seem to think are end-all of arguments http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thre...rsary-ever

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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