Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
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20-06-2011, 05:11 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
Buddy Christ,

There are no claims before Christ of being resurrected. Jesus is the first. That's why you can't find any and as was shown by Zeitgeist Refuted. My favorite sholar on the resurrection also says there has been no resurrection claims before Christ.

So you are deluding yourself.
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20-06-2011, 06:12 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(20-06-2011 04:29 PM)Parture Wrote:  
The New 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible

Infinite Regress is Impossible
1. We observe trillions and trillions of cause and effects in nature, and no hard evidence something comes from nothing, which is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If there was an infinite regress you would have happened already having had an eternity do so. And you would never have existed because the past would continue to go on for eternity never reaching this point. As you can see, infinite regress in all its varieties (e.g. cycles, mutiverses) is inherently contradictory and therefore, false.
Cause and effect are philosophical terms, not scientific terms. Quantum Mechanics predicts that there are events that happen without a "cause" such as the decay of particles, that seem to decay for no apparent reason. A half life is a statement that half the atoms in a mass will decay, but there is absolutely no way of determining a "cause" for a particular particles decay at any particular moment.

Likewise particle and antiparticle pairs do appear in a vacuum from nothing, although the pair almost always annihilate each other once that occurs. You may think that there is no evidence but the physicists working with particle accelerators would disagree.

That being said, you state that an infinite regression cannot exist, but don't demonstrate why it isn't possible. Just because you cannot imagine it to be true does not prove it isn't so. This is an argument from ignorance. Furthermore science does not claim that time goes back in an infinite regression, time (being the fourth dimension of our universe) began when our universe did. To talk about anything preexisting time in this context is nonsense.

(20-06-2011 04:29 PM)Parture Wrote:  Something Can't Come From Nothing
2. Something can't come from nothing (non-existence) either, because that which does not exist can't cause anything. Nothing always leaves nothing from nothing. Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms. In any process in an isolated system, the total energy remains the same. Since that which does not exist has no energy, it cannot produce a singularity for the universe. Many times I have heard atheists say, "The properties of the universe are different from the whole, so the composition doesn't abide in cause and effect when it was brought into being." Of course, this is doublespeak because for something to be "brought into being" requires a cause.

As stated before, we have examples where particles did come from nothing. Secondly, I think you are referring of the first law of thermodynamics when you mentioned energy being neither created or destroyed, "in an isolated system." If the phrase "before the big bang" had any meaning, it most certainly could not be called an "isolated system."

This point also boils down to "I can't think of how something can come from something" once again an argument from ignorance.

(20-06-2011 04:29 PM)Parture Wrote:  A Mind is Needed to Create a Mind
3. Since nature can't always have existed nor start up from nothing, there must exist that which is outside of nature, that is, outside of time and space which always existed. This is whom we call the uncreated Creator. If you want to compare an always existing timeless singularity to the uncreated Creator, simply observe what we know that that which doesn't have a mind, will, emotion, conscience, intuition, or self-consciousness can't produce that which does. The lesser can never produce the greater. There has not even been enough interatomic interactions in the history of the universe to be able to do so. If you claim time is needed to bring about this universe from a singularity but the singularity has no time then this universe would never have existed if a causeless singularity existed.

This is bald faced conjecture pulled from nowhere. How do you know that only a mind can create a mind? Prove it!

I would retort there has never been an example of a "mind" not contained within a brain. You are purporting a disembodied mind "as a creator" from nowhere, show me how it is possible for a mind to exist outside a brain. You must prove that such a thing can exist before it would be possible to put one forward as an explanation for the origin of the universe.

I really find your statement that "the lesser can never create the greater" as laughable. By what criteria? Humans can create machines and devices that are stronger, have larger memory capacity and capable of doing much faster calculations. In each case the lesser human did create something greater. Your words are nonsense.

(20-06-2011 04:29 PM)Parture Wrote:  The Resurrection Proves Jesus is God
4. Now that we know the uncreated Creator exists, we can compare. A God who is accessible and personal is better than one that is not. Only in Christianity do we find God enters His creation and dies for the sins of the world and proves He is our Creator by resurrecting Himself from the dead which can only occur supernaturally. Since almost all skeptical scholars concede for good reasons the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings and there are no naturalistic explanations that can account for the origin of the disciples' beliefs (having exhausted them all), we should submit ourselves to this evidence, because if a person doesn't, they will surely go to Hell according to Jesus our Creator.

It's ridiculous that you could use the phrase "uncreated Creator" when virtually every argument you pose about infinite regression, first cause and so on, could be just as readily applied to your creator. I am constantly amazed at how theists miss the contradiction in saying that "everything must have a cause" in step 1 and then create a special case exception for their god in Step 2, invalidating Step 1. If everything must have a cause, then your god would too.

You make the claim that "all skeptical scholars" agree with your conclusions without any proof. I have read several scholars (Ehrman, Carrier, and Fitzgerald come to mind) who would disagree with your conjecture and have met two of them in person. Even if your statement were true, so what? I can show you several people who believe they have been abducted by aliens and have seen Elvis after he died, but that doesn't make it true? Evidently there can be other explanations for people thinking they have seen things they didn't.

Finally, you can make empty threats of hell all you want, you are still basing your arguments on wild leaps of logic, arguments from ignorance and nothing more.

“There is no sin except stupidity.” Oscar Wilde
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20-06-2011, 06:47 PM (This post was last modified: 20-06-2011 06:53 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(20-06-2011 05:11 PM)Parture Wrote:  Buddy Christ,

There are no claims before Christ of being resurrected. Jesus is the first. That's why you can't find any and as was shown by Zeitgeist Refuted. My favorite sholar on the resurrection also says there has been no resurrection claims before Christ.

So you are deluding yourself.


At this point I'm am seriously concerned for your mental health. The fact that there are people like you walking around, voting, affecting society... plain scares me.

HERE IS THE LIST OF DEITIES THAT EXISTED BEFORE JESUS THAT WERE RESURRECTED


RIGHT HERE------>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_god <<<<<-----IT WAS BACK THERE


Scroll down and notice the many many Egyptian and Aztec and Greek gods that were resurrected.

And all of these gods had reported multitudes of witness, and so the event became documented, WHICH IS WHY IT IS KNOWN TO US


All the resurrection stories of these gods are JUST AS CREDIBLE as the story of your god. I realize that this is like trying to explain quantum mechanics to 3rd grader with a learning disability, but some part of me is concerned for your inability as a fellow human to grasp basic proofs. For all I know, you'll be the one to launch the nukes that start the "glorious armageddon" of nuclear holocaust.


I don't care if you agree with what we're saying, just please just try and understand it.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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20-06-2011, 07:12 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
Buddy Christ,

None of those are resurrections of a person.

Zeitgeist Refuted goes over each of them shows there was no resurrection that took place.



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20-06-2011, 07:14 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(20-06-2011 07:12 PM)Parture Wrote:  Buddy Christ,

None of those are resurrections of a person.

Neither was Jesus

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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20-06-2011, 07:16 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
Buddy Chris,

The claim is Jesus resurrected because the disciples report 12 different group settings witnessing his resurrection.

There is no such claim of even a resurrection in those gods you listed and Zeitgeist Refuted goes through them to show you let alone any eyewitnesses.

You keep avoiding this. Watch it and wake up!
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20-06-2011, 07:19 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(20-06-2011 07:16 PM)Parture Wrote:  Buddy Chris,

The claim is Jesus resurrected because the disciples report 12 different group settings witnessing his resurrection.

Pwpwpwpwpffpg ... that's the sound of the last of my hope for you drifting away.

Quote:There is no such claim of even a resurrection in those gods you listed and Zeitgeist goes through them to show you let alone any eyewitnesses.

ALL OF THEM were claimed to have been resurrected. Try getting your facts from actual books rather than "some guy's video response to a movie he disagreed with" on youtube.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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20-06-2011, 07:23 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
Sorry Buddy I have to disagree with you there. Youtube is the end all be all of genuine information. It's over man. Just give it up and walk away, he's won. He's got the disciples as witnesses so credible that we just can't argue it. Impossible. Then he has those videos. I don't know how you think you can battle such odds Buddy, I mean are you insane? He's got us all. He wins. It's over. It's all over. Can't you see?
Dammit I came back. How in the hell. Ok, apparently I'm not going away no matter what I say.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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20-06-2011, 07:24 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
It's interesting that Osiris for example is a myth who was brought back to life with a spell but nobody actually saw this god or saw it happen. That's why it is a myth. He comes back to life with a spell, Isis has sex with his father, and that produces Horus. Nobody saw it happen. Nobody saw any of these gods. You just have to imagine they exist. There is no eyewitness testimony like the disciples. No evidence. And the claim of resurrection was added to the story after Jesus' day. So you really have nothing going for you in this story to try and relate it to Jesus. Even in his resurrection the spell couldn't keep him alive. Whereas Jesus was seen raised and went to the right hand of the Father. Remember Jesus is fully God and fully man.
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20-06-2011, 07:27 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
ah yes, uniquely god, yet completely god.
If you want a video than try patcondell

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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