Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
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18-06-2011, 03:08 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
Everything highlighted in bold is asserted without evidence.

(18-06-2011 02:45 PM)Parture Wrote:  God does forgive unconditionally by way of the cross. So the issue is not whether God forgives unconditionally but whether you receive His forgiveness by what He did for you on the cross by taking upon Himself the sins of the world.

Righeously all sin must be judged and is judged on the cross. What you want is forgiveness without judgment of that sin but that is unrighteous. You can't have the mercy of God without the righteousness of God.

You can't just say things backed by nothing. And if you say these things are true because the Bible says they are, realize that the atheists here consider the Bible to be a work of fiction.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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18-06-2011, 03:09 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 02:45 PM)Parture Wrote:  God does forgive unconditionally by way of the cross. So the issue is not whether God forgives unconditionally but whether you receive His forgiveness by what He did for you on the cross by taking upon Himself the sins of the world.
So, NO... God does not forgive unconditionally. He could, be he chooses not to because that would spoil his divine plan of playing hide and seek with humanity forever.

(18-06-2011 02:45 PM)Parture Wrote:  Jesus has 45 sources of him within 150 years of His death, the most documented person in antiquity. Of those sources 17 of them are non-Christian too. We would expect the real God to prove Himself to us as we find in the proof of the resurrection of Jesus, but where is the evidence for FSM? How can God have lower standards than us? Why then have blind faith in FSM?

The original disciples gave their eyewitness testimony in various group settings for which there is no naturalistic explanation, therefore you can trust God of the Bible. Christianity is unique in that regard because only Christianity provides this substantial proof. Praise the Lord! Amen.
Bald assertion fallacy. Even if the (highly biased) eye witness accounts are true, that does not make the god Jesus claims to be son of true. That only makes the historical figure of Jesus true.

What is it with you theists that you claim to know the divine plan but fail to make a common statement?

As in your other tread I repeat my challenge:
Want to convince an Atheist (me)? Convince me of your vision on world peace and I'm all ears... But stop wasting me and your time in trying to prove your deity. (and while you're at it... define your deity for bonus points)

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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18-06-2011, 03:11 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 02:45 PM)Parture Wrote:  
(18-06-2011 03:53 AM)UnderTheMicroscope Wrote:  So Parture, why couldn't your god just forgive unconditionally? Does he not make the rules?
FSM does forgive unconditionally by way of the tomato sauce. So the issue is not whether FSM forgives unconditionally but whether you receive His noodly appendages by what He did for you with the meatballs by taking upon Himself the preparation of the entire meal. ... you ungrateful bastard.

Realistically all flavor must be judged and is judged on the plate. What you want is to eat yer pudding without eating yer meat but that is unrighteous. If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?

Without eating the noodly appendages along with the meatballs you are just being selfish.

My turn to fix. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-06-2011, 03:16 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
...the point every is making with these "fixed" posts, Parture, is that your claims about your god are interchangeable with claims about any god. We're not just being dicks for the sake of dickishness.

If a user named Ahmed showed up on your christian forum and started quoting the Qu'ran, would you be convinced based on the scripture alone?

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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18-06-2011, 03:24 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2011 03:27 PM by MasterRottweiler.)
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 03:16 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  ...the point every is making with these "fixed" posts, Parture, is that your claims about your god are interchangeable with claims about any god. We're not just being dicks for the sake of dickishness.

If a user named Ahmed showed up on your christian forum and started quoting the Qu'ran, would you be convinced based on the scripture alone?

Dont worry Buddy Christ, I bet this bible thumper will say that ALL the other imaginable dieties are FALSE except his diety. I find laughable the arrogant certainity from any kind of holy text thumper.

Ramén.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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18-06-2011, 03:35 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 03:24 PM)MasterRottweiler Wrote:  Dont worry Buddy Christ, I bet this bible thumper will say that ALL the other imaginable dieties are FALSE except his diety. I find laughable the arrogant certainity from any kind of holy text thumper.

AND (s)he will demand evidence of our claims/rebuttals while expecting us to believe his/her own claims without a shred of real evidence.

The God excuse: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. "God did it." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. - George Carlin

Whenever I'm asked "What if you're wrong?", I always show the asker this video: http://youtu.be/iClejS8vWjo Screw Pascal's wager.
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18-06-2011, 03:44 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 03:16 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  We're not just being dicks for the sake of dickishness.

Wait ... we're not? Is this another memo like the baby-eating one where I wasn't cc'ed? You guys really need to widen your distribution lists.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-06-2011, 03:59 PM
 
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
Almost all scholars concede the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings because it is so well documented meeting the historical standard for accuracy. If you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs then give your life to Christ.
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18-06-2011, 04:07 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2011 04:14 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 03:59 PM)Parture Wrote:  Almost all scholars concede the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings because it is so well documented meeting the historical standard for accuracy. If you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs then give your life to Christ.

I may not be able to come up with a naturalistic explanation but I sure as hell can come up with a pharmacological one 'cause I saw the exact same thing after taking some wicked blotter back in the day. Psilocybin, peyote, and ergot all come to mind back in their day.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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18-06-2011, 04:26 PM
RE: Without Denying Self No One Can Love the Lord
(18-06-2011 03:59 PM)Parture Wrote:  Almost all scholars concede the disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings

You don't need scholars to know that disciples believed the miracles of Jesus. That's why they're called disciples. That's like saying 100% of scholars agree that followers of Zeus believed that Zeus existed.

And by that logic, Elvis must still be alive, because followers are still seeing him everywhere.

Quote:because it is so well documented meeting the historical standard for accuracy.

The story of Jesus is NOT well documented. More than half of the prestigious historians of that time never mention a man named Jesus. And the few other historians only mention a Jesus who was crucified for attempting to spread cultist beliefs.

Regardless, even if it was 100% agreed upon that Jesus of Nazareth existed, that just proves that a man named Jesus of Nazareth existed.

Quote:If you can't find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs then give your life to Christ.

WOW WhAT? Alright, well if you can't find an explanation for the millions who have witnessed David Blaine levitate, walk on water, and make an airplane disappear in front of an audience of thousands... then give your life to Blaine.

You are brainwashed, my friend. You've had that filter jammed into your brain as a child. The filter that struggles to make the known laws and science and nature somehow coincide with the sloppy beliefs of the Bronze Age.

I'm worried for your soul. If you don't repent and give yourself to Zeus, you'll burn in the fiery pits of Tarterus.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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