Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
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30-05-2011, 07:14 PM
RE: Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
(29-05-2011 01:24 PM)Otto_Tellick Wrote:  And: while I don't think there are any insurmountable problems that prevent us from coming up with a useful definition for "sentient", should we look for a solid line dividing sentient life from non-sentient life, or should we expect to find a continuum or other type of "fuzzy boundary"?

Well terms I've heard used are sapient, sentient, and sophont. Mind you the distinction is still difficult, if you classy intelligence as organizing a stable society than you could look at a bunch of ants and say they are doing the same thing.
Maybe a tier system would work better?

Hey brother christian, with your high and mighty errand, your actions speak so loud, I can't hear a word you're saying.

"This machine kills fascists..."

"Well this machine kills commies!"
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30-05-2011, 07:49 PM
RE: Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
(29-05-2011 03:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 04:38 AM)daemonowner Wrote:  Nothing? So when no sentient life existed, nothing existed?

Yup. Nothing but probability waves until there's an observer.

No. That's a common misconception about quantum mechanics. Probability waves do not need to be observed to be collapsed.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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31-05-2011, 06:41 PM
RE: Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
(30-05-2011 07:49 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 03:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 04:38 AM)daemonowner Wrote:  Nothing? So when no sentient life existed, nothing existed?

Yup. Nothing but probability waves until there's an observer.

No. That's a common misconception about quantum mechanics. Probability waves do not need to be observed to be collapsed.

Tell me more. Tell me more.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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31-05-2011, 09:10 PM
 
RE: Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
Welcome Maumin, Smile
You're doing just fine in English.

Life has reason. You're here. There's no other in the world just like you and when you die you shall never be here again.

This life is all about you. Everything that happens occurs before your personal perspective. And who you believe yourself to be faces that and as that person, you impact others on their journey as well. Don't take it too seriously though. No one get's out alive and no one takes anything with them when they leave. Give from your heart first and your mind shall follow with open doors. Feel with every fiber of your being and your face will smile more than it frowns. Take the time out of your day to stop and watch the sun set. Because you will never see the light of your world die the same way again. And as she departs below the horizon, it signals one less day you have to shine. Feel your life. Feed your dreams. Dance your sorrows. Honor your pain. Take a breath. Accept a hug and give in return. Hope for better yet work to make it happen. And when your sunset arrives, breathe deep, feel who you are, don't look back, don't regret because that's baggage that can never be changed, because it no longer matters. Instead look forward to the end, because faiths and absolutes are the stuff of this flesh. What's out there is the stuff below the horizon. And if there's nothing, you'll not know that. And if there's something waiting, we shant either. Until it's our turn we shine until we set.

That's life.


Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.
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31-05-2011, 09:41 PM
RE: Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
Many thanks to all, huge amounts of help here Smile

By the time you stop ready this, you'll realze what a waste of time it has been Big Grin
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31-05-2011, 09:45 PM
RE: Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
(31-05-2011 06:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(30-05-2011 07:49 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 03:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 04:38 AM)daemonowner Wrote:  Nothing? So when no sentient life existed, nothing existed?

Yup. Nothing but probability waves until there's an observer.

No. That's a common misconception about quantum mechanics. Probability waves do not need to be observed to be collapsed.

Tell me more. Tell me more.

According to the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (which is by far and away the most accepted), any interaction between two probability fields causes their wavefunctions to collapse. Anything, conscious or not, which interacts with anything else causes that wavefunction to collapse.

An easy way to sum this up for the layman is that interacting with something causes that thing to exist in a definite state, and from there, it's only a tiny adjustment to the wording to say that observing something - which technically counts as interaction and which we do all the time - causes it to collapse. It's technically correct, but it's far from the whole picture. Observation is not necessary. Interaction is.

Meanwhile, the idea that consciousness alone can collapse a wavefunction is rejected by most physicists. It fails to explain how the universe could have existed prior to the existence of conscious observers. If one takes a dualistic approach and says that the mind exists separately from the body (and that thus these "free-floating minds" could have observed the universe prior to its existence), more problems arise, the most notable of which being the complete and utter lack of evidence for a non-material mind.

The consciousness causes collapse interpretation of quantum mechanics is only pushed by woos like Deepak Chopra, not actual physicists. It has absolutely no supporting evidence.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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31-05-2011, 10:17 PM
RE: Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
(31-05-2011 09:45 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(31-05-2011 06:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(30-05-2011 07:49 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 03:58 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-05-2011 04:38 AM)daemonowner Wrote:  Nothing? So when no sentient life existed, nothing existed?

Yup. Nothing but probability waves until there's an observer.

No. That's a common misconception about quantum mechanics. Probability waves do not need to be observed to be collapsed.

Tell me more. Tell me more.

According to the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (which is by far and away the most accepted),

You might not be as up-to-date on that claim as you might think. ... just sayin'.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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01-06-2011, 02:07 AM
RE: Without God, life has no reason to be, there is no ultimate goal?
(28-05-2011 03:49 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  The meaning of life is to make yourself as happy as possible without impeding on the happiness of others.

To get through life causing as little suffering as possible to those around you and to yourself.

(in bad French accent) "And so I became a waiter."


By the way, here's something I've never understood. If life has no meaning without God, what meaning does it have WITH God? If our purpose is to worship God, how does that have value?
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