Women and their feelings towards weight.
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07-12-2011, 03:56 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(30-11-2011 04:58 AM)Filox Wrote:  I have a feeling most of these posts were against me and my ranting... Fine, I did deserve it and I apologize if I offended anyone, not thinking before posting can be a problem occasionally. But I did notice a few things that I didn't see before, for example SY2502, you are a woman? Damn, how did I miss that, I was sure you were a man, and I have no idea why. My bad.

If you want to know, I've been skinny my whole life, been having problems of getting 2 pounds more since forever, so you could say I also have an eating disorder, everybody was and still are making fun of my weight every day, that is something I live and have fun with. You have no idea what I went through in life because of my weight, so I'm kinda used to it all, I just forget that this subject can still affect people, when you get used to making fun of your friends and they do the same thing to you your whole life, you get used to it all, fat, skinny, bald, gay, deaf, whatever... Making fun of yourself and others helps you get over your problems, but also makes you more dull to other peoples feelings.

P.S.
CYTB, you are not alone, only I now like this "disorder", you will too, in time.

Care for some jokes?

My friends always tell me I'm in 2D... (They call me: My 2D friend) Smile
I'm the greatest spy ever, when I turn sideways I become invisible. (Like that Transformer, in Trans2 I think)
I can't jump in the sea, I can only land slowly, like a leaf.

Filox, I will admit that my initial post was written with your responses in mind. I should have addressed you directly in the first place! Sorry, but I get extremely upset when someone dismissively throws "eat less and exercise more" at a fat person as if that will solve all their problems.

I think it's because I'm coming from the point of view of a fat person who DOES eat less and healthy and exercises more, and is still not thin. I'm fit, and yes I've lost some weight, I'm just not thin or even average sized. I don't like being judged because of my body size, and, as you said above, you don't like to be judged by your body size either. The difference between you and I, however, is that being thin is aesthetically pleasing and therefore socially acceptable, so the body snarking doesn't go as far as it does with fat people. You can be teased, but at the end of the day, people are still your friends and still like you and it's probably pretty easy to forget about the teasing. A fat person can be teased, and at the end of the day remain ostracized or be disliked because they are percieved as disgusting. Do you see the differences? You could look at me and judge me as unhealthy, lazy, and dismissive of my appearance when my day to day activities are anything BUT unhealthy or lazy...and I'm the most vain person on the planet. LOL

Also, I ran across this interesting article about fitness and fatness.. For the fat haters out there, I'm not using this as proof that being fat is healthy...just as a support that being thin isn't the holy grail of fitness and health. Curious what you all think.

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

- Carl Sagan
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07-12-2011, 04:02 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(07-12-2011 03:56 PM)zaika Wrote:  
(30-11-2011 04:58 AM)Filox Wrote:  I have a feeling most of these posts were against me and my ranting... Fine, I did deserve it and I apologize if I offended anyone, not thinking before posting can be a problem occasionally. But I did notice a few things that I didn't see before, for example SY2502, you are a woman? Damn, how did I miss that, I was sure you were a man, and I have no idea why. My bad.

If you want to know, I've been skinny my whole life, been having problems of getting 2 pounds more since forever, so you could say I also have an eating disorder, everybody was and still are making fun of my weight every day, that is something I live and have fun with. You have no idea what I went through in life because of my weight, so I'm kinda used to it all, I just forget that this subject can still affect people, when you get used to making fun of your friends and they do the same thing to you your whole life, you get used to it all, fat, skinny, bald, gay, deaf, whatever... Making fun of yourself and others helps you get over your problems, but also makes you more dull to other peoples feelings.

P.S.
CYTB, you are not alone, only I now like this "disorder", you will too, in time.

Care for some jokes?

My friends always tell me I'm in 2D... (They call me: My 2D friend) Smile
I'm the greatest spy ever, when I turn sideways I become invisible. (Like that Transformer, in Trans2 I think)
I can't jump in the sea, I can only land slowly, like a leaf.

Filox, I will admit that my initial post was written with your responses in mind. I should have addressed you directly in the first place! Sorry, but I get extremely upset when someone dismissively throws "eat less and exercise more" at a fat person as if that will solve all their problems.

I think it's because I'm coming from the point of view of a fat person who DOES eat less and healthy and exercises more, and is still not thin. I'm fit, and yes I've lost some weight, I'm just not thin or even average sized. I don't like being judged because of my body size, and, as you said above, you don't like to be judged by your body size either. The difference between you and I, however, is that being thin is aesthetically pleasing and therefore socially acceptable, so the body snarking doesn't go as far as it does with fat people. You can be teased, but at the end of the day, people are still your friends and still like you and it's probably pretty easy to forget about the teasing. A fat person can be teased, and at the end of the day remain ostracized or be disliked because they are percieved as disgusting. Do you see the differences? You could look at me and judge me as unhealthy, lazy, and dismissive of my appearance when my day to day activities are anything BUT unhealthy or lazy...and I'm the most vain person on the planet. LOL

Also, I ran across this interesting article about fitness and fatness.. For the fat haters out there, I'm not using this as proof that being fat is healthy...just as a support that being thin isn't the holy grail of fitness and health. Curious what you all think.


Plenty of overweight people are in good health and plenty of thin aren't. But when we are discussing what is and isn't considerend attractive to the majority then being thin is definitly more acceptable. And it's not because fashion magazines and media tell us that. As for your situation, good for you. You aren't thin but you want to be and are doing something about it. I don't have a problem with overweight people at all. I just don't like hearing anyone wallow in sorrow when it really is something they can fix. Not every fit person was always in shape. Everybody has to start somewhere and that tends to be the hard part. Getting started. Many people start exercising to lose weight and when 2 weeks later they are the same weight they give up. Just gotta stick with it. I've seen 400 lbs guys get down to 180 with 8% bodyfat.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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07-12-2011, 05:35 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(07-12-2011 04:02 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 03:56 PM)zaika Wrote:  
(30-11-2011 04:58 AM)Filox Wrote:  I have a feeling most of these posts were against me and my ranting... Fine, I did deserve it and I apologize if I offended anyone, not thinking before posting can be a problem occasionally. But I did notice a few things that I didn't see before, for example SY2502, you are a woman? Damn, how did I miss that, I was sure you were a man, and I have no idea why. My bad.

If you want to know, I've been skinny my whole life, been having problems of getting 2 pounds more since forever, so you could say I also have an eating disorder, everybody was and still are making fun of my weight every day, that is something I live and have fun with. You have no idea what I went through in life because of my weight, so I'm kinda used to it all, I just forget that this subject can still affect people, when you get used to making fun of your friends and they do the same thing to you your whole life, you get used to it all, fat, skinny, bald, gay, deaf, whatever... Making fun of yourself and others helps you get over your problems, but also makes you more dull to other peoples feelings.

P.S.
CYTB, you are not alone, only I now like this "disorder", you will too, in time.

Care for some jokes?

My friends always tell me I'm in 2D... (They call me: My 2D friend) Smile
I'm the greatest spy ever, when I turn sideways I become invisible. (Like that Transformer, in Trans2 I think)
I can't jump in the sea, I can only land slowly, like a leaf.

Filox, I will admit that my initial post was written with your responses in mind. I should have addressed you directly in the first place! Sorry, but I get extremely upset when someone dismissively throws "eat less and exercise more" at a fat person as if that will solve all their problems.

I think it's because I'm coming from the point of view of a fat person who DOES eat less and healthy and exercises more, and is still not thin. I'm fit, and yes I've lost some weight, I'm just not thin or even average sized. I don't like being judged because of my body size, and, as you said above, you don't like to be judged by your body size either. The difference between you and I, however, is that being thin is aesthetically pleasing and therefore socially acceptable, so the body snarking doesn't go as far as it does with fat people. You can be teased, but at the end of the day, people are still your friends and still like you and it's probably pretty easy to forget about the teasing. A fat person can be teased, and at the end of the day remain ostracized or be disliked because they are percieved as disgusting. Do you see the differences? You could look at me and judge me as unhealthy, lazy, and dismissive of my appearance when my day to day activities are anything BUT unhealthy or lazy...and I'm the most vain person on the planet. LOL

Also, I ran across this interesting article about fitness and fatness.. For the fat haters out there, I'm not using this as proof that being fat is healthy...just as a support that being thin isn't the holy grail of fitness and health. Curious what you all think.


Plenty of overweight people are in good health and plenty of thin aren't. But when we are discussing what is and isn't considerend attractive to the majority then being thin is definitly more acceptable. And it's not because fashion magazines and media tell us that. As for your situation, good for you. You aren't thin but you want to be and are doing something about it. I don't have a problem with overweight people at all. I just don't like hearing anyone wallow in sorrow when it really is something they can fix. Not every fit person was always in shape. Everybody has to start somewhere and that tends to be the hard part. Getting started. Many people start exercising to lose weight and when 2 weeks later they are the same weight they give up. Just gotta stick with it. I've seen 400 lbs guys get down to 180 with 8% bodyfat.

I appreciate your honesty about what you find attractive. I absolutely respect that we all have preferences about what kind of body type is more attractive to each one of us. I hold no grudges against anyone for what they find to be sexually appealing. One of my good friends is sexually attracted to extremely obese...like over 500lbs...women. He is likewise attracted to very tall and very buildt women. That's his preference, and that's okay. I am also personally acquainted with over a dozen men who are part of a larger group of men who prefer big women (apparantly I'm too small for most of them...*shrug*). I am attracted to very tall and skinny men...or very tall and average sized. That's my preference, and that's okay too. You are attracted to thin and fit women, and that's okay! Hooray for all of us! Wink

What's not okay is carrying over a personal preference and holding everyone up to that standard and making moral judgements based on this. Yes, I agree, obesity can be "fixed." What you, or more accurately, the plural you, don't seem to understand is that for some people, the fix might require more time and energy than what is available to them after a work day and familial obligations. It might require some serious sacrifices. For others, it might be very easy to lose weight with very little adjustments of time organization. I've personally seen examples of both. What I wish is that folks would stop using excuses and just be honest with themselves and say something like, "I enjoy my social life more than working out, and I accept that my body will have this reaction..." instead of, like you said, whining and not doing anything about it if they really feel that badly about it. That irritates me too.

As far as wallowing in sorrow, I'm of the opinion that if more folks stopped harping on fat people....there might be less public wallowing. We all like peer approval, and I think many negative behaviours stem from wanting this approval. I've been one of those people who complained and put myself down in front of others as a way to avoid judgement from them. If I acknowledged it first, then there was no need for others to do it for me. Thankfully, I no longer do that, and life is so much better for everyone! Maybe, for some people, being shamed is the only way they will change their lifestyles, but think about it...is that really healthy? Does someone who is that responsive to negative comments and shame really have the strong and healthy mental state it takes to undertake something as life changing as weight loss? They might be able to do all the external motions it takes to lose it, but will they keep it off? Will they actually find a love for activity and movement and continue with it in the years to come? I don't know the answers to these questions, but from personal experience and lots of reading...I don't think anyone can incorporate healthy habits without a healthy mind. What's the saying? Physical endurance comes from a 10% physical effort, and 90% mental effort? Someone correct me on this... Body acceptance, postiive reinforcement, encouragement to address your issues, honesty...that's where real and lifelong gains in fitness begin. I mean...isn't that the end goal?

ANyway...I, obviously, can ramble on and on about this subject, and not in a very organized way. LOL Thank you germanyt for your points of view.

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

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07-12-2011, 07:12 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(07-12-2011 02:15 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Of course they are people. But dont' pretend that people's perception of sexy and beauty are shaped by society. ... One looks like Rosie Odonnell and the other like Scarlett Johansson. I bet my own life the dude chases after Scarlett. It's nature.

Nope, you'd lose your life on that bet, brother. It's definitely cultural as my morbidly obese mother who married a Syrian who had no interest in her being any thinner can attest. And he wasn't the only Syrian courting her.

(07-12-2011 03:56 PM)zaika Wrote:  Also, I ran across this interesting article about fitness and fatness.. ... Curious what you all think.

I just watched a 300 lb man run a marathon in 5 hours on the Biggest Loser. Several more still morbidly obese contestants finished in under 6 hours. I personally find that show a bit offensive in the way it exploits obesity for profit (each season they have to find fatter and fatter contestants) and their radical approach doesn't seem particularly healthy to me, but there's no denying they get them fit. And how about all those NFL lineman, there's no disputing their elite fitness levels. Or Sumo wrestlers for that matter. I find my biggest problem with getting heavier is lethargy. It requires more work (literally, like in the scientific definition of "work") to maintain the same level of fitness and it just gets too easy for me to fall off the wagon. Of course, that only makes it that much more work to get back in shape. But there's no disputing you can be both fat and fit. Zaika's triathlons are even more immediate and direct evidence of that.

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08-12-2011, 02:35 AM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(07-12-2011 07:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 02:15 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Of course they are people. But dont' pretend that people's perception of sexy and beauty are shaped by society. ... One looks like Rosie Odonnell and the other like Scarlett Johansson. I bet my own life the dude chases after Scarlett. It's nature.

Nope, you'd lose your life on that bet, brother. It's definitely cultural as my morbidly obese mother who married a Syrian who had no interest in her being any thinner can attest. And he wasn't the only Syrian courting her.

(07-12-2011 03:56 PM)zaika Wrote:  Also, I ran across this interesting article about fitness and fatness.. ... Curious what you all think.

I just watched a 300 lb man run a marathon in 5 hours on the Biggest Loser. Several more still morbidly obese contestants finished in under 6 hours. I personally find that show a bit offensive in the way it exploits obesity for profit (each season they have to find fatter and fatter contestants) and their radical approach doesn't seem particularly healthy to me, but there's no denying they get them fit. And how about all those NFL lineman, there's no disputing their elite fitness levels. Or Sumo wrestlers for that matter. I find my biggest problem with getting heavier is lethargy. It requires more work (literally, like in the scientific definition of "work") to maintain the same level of fitness and it just gets too easy for me to fall off the wagon. Of course, that only makes it that much more work to get back in shape. But there's no disputing you can be both fat and fit. Zaika's triathlons are even more immediate and direct evidence of that.

I can't tell you just how much I LOATHE The Biggest Loser, as well as most of the weight loss shows on TV. It's just so shameful...the epitome of body shaming. Plus, none of those people are shown having to actually incorporate what they've learned with their regular life. The closest I've seen to that kind of thing is on "Heavy," and even then, that show is not perfect. The doctors behave terribly towards the people, but at least the trainers treat them with dignity and give them positive encouragement. If you haven't seen it and are curious, I do recommend it as they tend to delve into the many layers (health concerns, mental health, time constraints) that come with being fat and losing weight.

But I understand what you mean about lethargy, but I think it's less connected to weight and more connected to strength and fitness. I don't know the first thing about Sumo wrestling. Do they just eat a lot, or is there some real strength involved as well? NFL linemen...they have to have strength as well, right? I'm sorry...I don't know much about professional sports. Blush I would imagine that if you carry excess weight with no muscular strength to support your body, then yeah...goodbye to stamina and endurance...

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

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08-12-2011, 03:56 AM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
Sumo wrestlers are starting as children, they have special diets that they take for the rest of their life once they start training. Their life span is not very long, their life expectancy is about 60-65 years, because of their weight and all the conditions that come with it. They are very respected individuals in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumo#Life_a...o_wrestler

And of course there is real strength involved in their skill, what do you think is it easy to move your opponent that weights like a small house?

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08-12-2011, 08:56 AM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(07-12-2011 07:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(07-12-2011 02:15 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Of course they are people. But dont' pretend that people's perception of sexy and beauty are shaped by society. ... One looks like Rosie Odonnell and the other like Scarlett Johansson. I bet my own life the dude chases after Scarlett. It's nature.

Nope, you'd lose your life on that bet, brother. It's definitely cultural as my morbidly obese mother who married a Syrian who had no interest in her being any thinner can attest. And he wasn't the only Syrian courting her.

There is no question that is is human/animal nature to seek out the most fertile and attractive mate based on genetics. As for your mom, in a lot of cases personality, sense of humor, intelligence, and other factors go into who you fall in love with. It's likely that your mom just has a kick ass personality and for many that is enough to become infatuated with someone. I had a huge crush on a girl that wasn't fat, but was def overweight in high school because she was just that cool to be around. I lost my virginity to a girl that wasn't exactly thin (36DD/30/36 ish). No one can chose who they fall in love with. It just happens. But from a beauty and sexuality point of view animal instincts of breeding and genetics take over. If anything, society has molded men and women into not selecting the most attractive mate to breed.


FYI this is the ideal physique for me.
[Image: Jamie-Eason-400x600-31kb-media-14589-med...613703.jpg]

Now, even this would not be considered attractive by the mass majority. She has narrow hips, very low bodyfat, small chest (they are fake but still average to small). She clearly isn't the best breeder. But the fact that she has a dedicated hobby and I share that interest is very attractive to me. Not too mention she is really cute and very sweet. I met her at a guest appearance about a year ago.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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08-12-2011, 10:57 AM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(08-12-2011 03:56 AM)Filox Wrote:  Sumo wrestlers are starting as children, they have special diets that they take for the rest of their life once they start training. Their life span is not very long, their life expectancy is about 60-65 years, because of their weight and all the conditions that come with it. They are very respected individuals in Japan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumo#Life_a...o_wrestler

And of course there is real strength involved in their skill, what do you think is it easy to move your opponent that weights like a small house?

I guess I wasn't very clear in my question. I was curious if part of their training involves gaining muscle mass as well? It didn't really say in the wiki article. And yeah, of course strength is a part of their skill...but if you have a lot of weight behind the force you exert, which is still strength, you don't necessarily have to have a ton of muscle strength. That's all I was curious about. Smile When my finals are done, I'll have to go check this out...

We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.

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08-12-2011, 11:00 AM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(08-12-2011 08:56 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Now, even this would not be considered attractive by the mass majority. She has narrow hips, very low bodyfat, small chest (they are fake but still average to small). She clearly isn't the best breeder. But the fact that she has a dedicated hobby and I share that interest is very attractive to me. Not too mention she is really cute and very sweet. I met her at a guest appearance about a year ago.

Cute and sweet are good, but the veins are creeping me out.

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08-12-2011, 11:06 AM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(08-12-2011 11:00 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(08-12-2011 08:56 AM)germanyt Wrote:  Now, even this would not be considered attractive by the mass majority. She has narrow hips, very low bodyfat, small chest (they are fake but still average to small). She clearly isn't the best breeder. But the fact that she has a dedicated hobby and I share that interest is very attractive to me. Not too mention she is really cute and very sweet. I met her at a guest appearance about a year ago.

Cute and sweet are good, but the veins are creeping me out.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=JAMI...&form=QBIR

Fap away my friend.


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