Women and their feelings towards weight.
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13-01-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(13-01-2012 10:00 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  I am saying that people shouldn't have to feel ugly or not beautiful and like the scum of the earth for how they LOOK.

Ok I don't get this one. Beauty is by definition about how one looks. Some things we find more beautiful than others. Acne is not usually associated with "beautiful". So are scars or disfigurements. Sorry if that's unfair or whatever, but you can't force someone to find a certain physical trait beautiful. It has been shown that even very young kids prefer to look at symmetrical faces, hinting that some concepts of beauty are hard wired.
Also don't associate finding some physical traits beautiful or not with treating people like scum. There are folks I know who I find truly ugly but I don't treat them like scum. I treat them with the dignity and respect every human being should get. But do I find them beautiful? No, sorry, I wouldn't sleep with them if we were the last humans on earth. So sue me...

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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13-01-2012, 07:31 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(13-01-2012 11:40 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(13-01-2012 10:00 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  I am saying that people shouldn't have to feel ugly or not beautiful and like the scum of the earth for how they LOOK.

Ok I don't get this one. Beauty is by definition about how one looks. Some things we find more beautiful than others.

Like so many other concepts, beauty is nowhere near that simple.

(13-01-2012 11:40 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  No, sorry, I wouldn't sleep with them if we were the last humans on earth. So sue me...

One advantage to lifelong monogamy is that "Would you do her?" never really enters into the equation for me. Tongue

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
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Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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13-01-2012, 08:14 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(13-01-2012 07:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-01-2012 11:40 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(13-01-2012 10:00 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  I am saying that people shouldn't have to feel ugly or not beautiful and like the scum of the earth for how they LOOK.

Ok I don't get this one. Beauty is by definition about how one looks. Some things we find more beautiful than others.

Like so many other concepts, beauty is nowhere near that simple.

(13-01-2012 11:40 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  No, sorry, I wouldn't sleep with them if we were the last humans on earth. So sue me...

One advantage to lifelong monogamy is that "Would you do her?" never really enters into the equation for me. Tongue

eheh...
but seriously though, one thing is treating people with respect and dignity regardless of what they look like, and another is to think someone is beautiful. I don't find obese people beautiful, sorry ok? I don't. Playing the martyr and flinging crap at people because they don't find you beautiful is pretty immature. Some people here keep saying they are at peace with their weight. I say no, they obviously are not.
Example: suppose I really liked tattoos and piercings (I don't, but bear with me). I, like any other intelligent person out there, know that some jobs don't like and don't hire people with visible tattoos and piercings, it's not considered "professional attire". Well, when I make the decision of getting a tattoo, part of the decision involves acknowledging, and making peace with the fact that there are some jobs I won't get.
So someone who says "I feel great about being obese" and then whines and moans about people not finding them attractive, well then that person has a problem. She can
a) Make peace with the fact many don't find obese attractive, stay obese, and wait to see if they find someone who does.
b) If being attractive is what's important to them, they can lose weight.
They can't have their cake and eat it too (some pun intended). Generally speaking, I don't see people who really are at peace with something post pages and pages of criticism of how others don't like or accept them.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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13-01-2012, 08:17 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(13-01-2012 11:40 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  No, sorry, I wouldn't sleep with them if we were the last humans on earth. So sue me...

Oh, if only I had a nickel for every time a woman has told me this! Dodgy

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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13-01-2012, 09:41 PM (This post was last modified: 14-01-2012 12:34 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(13-01-2012 08:14 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  I don't find obese people beautiful, sorry ok? I don't.

Okay. To each their own. No big deal. We done here?

My wife's surprised nobody's posted this yet. She thinks it's Ron Jeremy's finest performance. ... She was never a big fan. ... And I work out. Big Grin




As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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14-01-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(13-01-2012 07:31 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(13-01-2012 11:40 AM)sy2502 Wrote:  
(13-01-2012 10:00 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  I am saying that people shouldn't have to feel ugly or not beautiful and like the scum of the earth for how they LOOK.

Ok I don't get this one. Beauty is by definition about how one looks. Some things we find more beautiful than others.

Like so many other concepts, beauty is nowhere near that simple.

I guess I am only responsible for what I am saying, not what anyone else understands.


I disagree that beauty is a definition of how one looks. I know drop dead gorgeous people who are so UGLY because of who they are, and I know other people that wouldn't make the cover of cosmo but they are so pretty and radiate elegance, prettiness, sparkle and beauty when I am with them.

I agree that some things are more beautiful than others, or even some things about something is more beautiful too.

[Image: beauty.jpg]

[Image: lookandsee.jpg]

[Image: reflections.jpg]

[Image: justhappen.jpg]
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15-01-2012, 05:13 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
Beauty is not contingent upon someone's weight. The perception of it is different for every person. Unfortunately society has attempted to create (disgusting) "standards" of beauty, and has ultimately failed at it.

I believe that this entire conversation is somewhat moot (though I'm not trying to stop it), just my opinion. When it comes to weight or size, the only thing that really matters is healthy vs. unhealthy, and this still doesn't bare any weight on someone's attractiveness. Also, people can choose to be unhealthy and they will pay the consequences. That is up to them. If someone is spiraling out of control and is going to have a heart attack at 30 years old or earlier, then sure if done with tact, a close friend or family member isn't overstepping their bounds to express their concerns.

I drink more than I should and I'll probably pay for that someday. I'm probably near about 350 pounds but people have found me attractive even when I was certain that I'm not attractive at all. I am unhealthy, and I am eating better and exercising more and trying to improve it.

In my perception, when someone weighs 300 pounds and then transforms themselves and then weighs 180 pounds, in most cases I do find them "more attractive", but that is only how I perceive it. There are plenty of people that don't fit our "ideal weight standards" that I also find attractive and maybe wouldn't otherwise. Also there are people that are very thin, and often not because of their own doing, that are quite attractive. There are people that appear overweight that actually are healthy internally. It is possible to be underweight/overweight and still be healthy. Healthy doesn't mean you'll always be at some perfect number of pounds. Life doesn't work that way. In fact, it has been found increasingly true that the standards even used by the medical community for categorizing humans as "overweight" or not are extremely flawed.

It is also true that "beauty" stands for much more than outward appearance. There are people that are outwardly attractive to me that are extremely unattractive in every other way (hateful, etc.). Also, it is possible that one's perception of someone's personality can affect their perception of that person's outward appearance.

Hate towards any size of person is still hate. Obesity is an epidemic, but it is so intertwined with the beauty standard problems we have in society that the subject is a fire just waiting to be stoked. Encouragement and the realization that beauty is subjective are the only ways the discussion can progress forward in a positive light and for there being any hope of having a healthier human race in the future.

"Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn't exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely." — Sam Harris

"There is no goddamn god, goddamn it."
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18-01-2012, 12:25 PM
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(15-01-2012 05:13 PM)w0rmwood Wrote:  Beauty is not contingent upon someone's weight. The perception of it is different for every person. Unfortunately society has attempted to create (disgusting) "standards" of beauty, and has ultimately failed at it.

I believe that this entire conversation is somewhat moot (though I'm not trying to stop it), just my opinion. When it comes to weight or size, the only thing that really matters is healthy vs. unhealthy, and this still doesn't bare any weight on someone's attractiveness. Also, people can choose to be unhealthy and they will pay the consequences. That is up to them. If someone is spiraling out of control and is going to have a heart attack at 30 years old or earlier, then sure if done with tact, a close friend or family member isn't overstepping their bounds to express their concerns.

I drink more than I should and I'll probably pay for that someday. I'm probably near about 350 pounds but people have found me attractive even when I was certain that I'm not attractive at all. I am unhealthy, and I am eating better and exercising more and trying to improve it.

In my perception, when someone weighs 300 pounds and then transforms themselves and then weighs 180 pounds, in most cases I do find them "more attractive", but that is only how I perceive it. There are plenty of people that don't fit our "ideal weight standards" that I also find attractive and maybe wouldn't otherwise. Also there are people that are very thin, and often not because of their own doing, that are quite attractive. There are people that appear overweight that actually are healthy internally. It is possible to be underweight/overweight and still be healthy. Healthy doesn't mean you'll always be at some perfect number of pounds. Life doesn't work that way. In fact, it has been found increasingly true that the standards even used by the medical community for categorizing humans as "overweight" or not are extremely flawed.

It is also true that "beauty" stands for much more than outward appearance. There are people that are outwardly attractive to me that are extremely unattractive in every other way (hateful, etc.). Also, it is possible that one's perception of someone's personality can affect their perception of that person's outward appearance.

Hate towards any size of person is still hate. Obesity is an epidemic, but it is so intertwined with the beauty standard problems we have in society that the subject is a fire just waiting to be stoked. Encouragement and the realization that beauty is subjective are the only ways the discussion can progress forward in a positive light and for there being any hope of having a healthier human race in the future.

Ok so your argument boils down to
- I want to be beautiful.
- Therefore I redefine beauty to mean what I am.
- Everybody else must share my personal definition of beauty, otherwise they are brainwashed.

Good luck with that!

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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19-01-2012, 09:09 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2012 09:13 PM by w0rmwood.)
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
Not sure how you got any of that from my post unless I'm being completely misunderstood.

I don't mind if everyone thinks that post is incorrect. I don't care whether or not I'm considered "beautiful", because I definitely wouldn't consider myself that nor do I expect people to do so. I also don't feel that anyone needs to share my personal definition of beauty. I was just stating my opinion in the previous post. Everyone can feel free to completely disagree.

I was just saying that health, weight, and beauty are not directly related. I'm not redefining beauty as "what I am". I never said I am beautiful, I strictly said that few (VERY FEW) others have found me attractive as a way of saying that some people can look past weight and see someone as attractive for other reasons, or even see them as outwardly attractive regardless of their weight.

However, there are plenty of people that don't, and instead want to impose on society THEIR standards of beauty, which are FAR more often related to weight.

How is that a controversial view and how is my post redefining beauty as myself and wanting to be beautiful, and thinking everyone has to share my opinion? The only part I can see even possibly relevant is where I say the conversation is moot- not in an attempt to stop discussion or state that I MUST be correct, but to say simply why I and possibly only I think that.


Fucking damn. I keep re-reading my post looking for any truth in your analysis and I'm just not finding it.
I mean, honestly, what the fuck?

I seriously feel like what I write and what people say I've written are two completely different things. Another conversation I thought I could contribute to that ends up seemingly being a waste of time because I can't write words and have people read them with any comprehension. It could totally be my fault and that's depressing.

"Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn't exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely." — Sam Harris

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19-01-2012, 09:49 PM (This post was last modified: 19-01-2012 09:52 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Women and their feelings towards weight.
(19-01-2012 09:09 PM)w0rmwood Wrote:  Not sure how you got any of that from my post unless I'm being completely misunderstood.

Nah, this fatboy's got your back brother. ... Now give us a picture. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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