Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
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18-06-2013, 03:08 PM
Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
http://sofrep.com/18946/women-fail-marin...rse-again/


Based on what I seen being in a POG unit with women on hikes, and trying out for MarSoc A&S, this is kinda a DUH thing. I wish we would stop wasting time to prove what we already know.

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18-06-2013, 03:42 PM
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
It's politically correctness gone mad really.
The idea that there are two standards for male and female when it comes to this is stupid.
As the article says, the situation is the same for both male and female when the bullets start flying...

I'm all for women in any position in the armed forces, I just don't think governments should downgrade the quality of the armed services in order to accommodate for it. This is life and death we are talking about after all and you want the absolute best in that situation.

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19-06-2013, 07:37 AM
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
only two female volunteers? and they call that an experiment? pfft

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19-06-2013, 02:28 PM
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
Women can achieve a very high level of strength and endurance, more than enough to pass the test. The problem isn't that women can't meet the standards - the problem is that there are two sets of standards, and the ones for women are quite a lot lower. Standards should be consistent. Fewer women will meet the higher standards, but the military should be by necessity meritocratic, because physical ability really is a matter of life and death.

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19-06-2013, 03:16 PM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2013 05:40 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
While I don't think you guys are wrong and do not think their should be a double standard for combat troops (BTW I would think women should be better at a lot of the climbing obstacles...women do lead the rock climbing world...and statistically they are better shots as well at least with lower calibre less strength based weapons...something to do with center of gravity) but I also can't help but wonder if the military is not lowering standards as a whole to deal with recruitment problems at a time when soldiers and even some reservists are likely to see combat.

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19-06-2013, 03:50 PM
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
What we have to do is let women excel where they excel and men the same, based on performance. The minute we lower standards to make the numbers look better we're screwed. What we should not do is assume that a woman could never be a navy seal. We might actually be surprised.

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19-06-2013, 05:35 PM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2013 05:38 PM by nach_in.)
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
I think the issue can be traced to a cultural thing, usually girls are not encouraged to engage in physically demanding activities, that can lead to a less women capable of enduring the tests at the same standards as men. But for political reasons the military needs to have a balanced amount of men and women, so they lower the standards for women to more can pass the test. Funny thing, in the name of equality they put women lives at risk, just to appear as they're inclusive :O

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19-06-2013, 05:48 PM
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
Not sure you realize, but they had to find women that would even have a likely chance of coming close to passing. What's the point of including the bottom 98% when the top 2% have failed twice.

There are plenty of women who can stand around at a static position within driving distance of the FOB and get shot at. Thats not hard at all. If your a woman, you'll even get a bronze star for it, but once again it's the difference between being "in combat" and "sustained ground combat operations". I had a women friend who was a FET chick, and they had to be pulled out of the canals because they just didnt have the ass(quads and glutes too!) to jump them.

(19-06-2013 07:37 AM)nach_in Wrote:  only two female volunteers? and they call that an experiment? pfft
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19-06-2013, 06:11 PM
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
(18-06-2013 03:08 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  http://sofrep.com/18946/women-fail-marin...rse-again/


Based on what I seen being in a POG unit with women on hikes, and trying out for MarSoc A&S, this is kinda a DUH thing. I wish we would stop wasting time to prove what we already know.

Yabut, think there are still viable combat roles for women. I remember seeing a study where they can tolerate higher G's than men so they could potentially be better fighter pilots. And don't see any reason they couldn't be snipers and drone pilots. ... But that's likely not your point.

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19-06-2013, 06:12 PM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2013 06:15 PM by Atheist_pilgrim.)
RE: Women fail Marine IOC, repeat performance.
(18-06-2013 03:08 PM)TheBlackKnight Wrote:  http://sofrep.com/18946/women-fail-marin...rse-again/
Based on what I seen being in a POG unit with women on hikes, and trying out for MarSoc A&S, this is kinda a DUH thing.

As a former Marine POG, there's truth to this. When I was in NCO Academy, all of the females hopped on the safety vehicle in the midst of our final night hump. Since my feet were pretty messed up I wouldn't have minded doing so myself, but peer pressure and the desire to stick it out prevented me from taking that out. At my graduation evaluation, the only quality where I got an above-average rating was endurance, which felt good.

Now, lest I come across as sexist, keep in mind that the majority of the military runs on the average person - including the combat arms jobs. The average male can be trained and conditioned to do the average physical tasks required to keep the machine going a lot more quickly and effectively than the average female (especially when the machine tends to require grunts to carry around a hundred pounds of gear in the field).

Now elite units - that's an interesting angle. They run on exceptional people, so the question is, are there exceptional women who can excel in them? I wouldn't doubt that possibility, and it will be interesting to see how all this social engineering plays out. For example, based on past examples (Soviet Union in WWII, VC in Vietnam), I can certainly imagine a cadre of female snipers. But I'm still skeptical about women serving in regular grunt, arty, and tanker units.
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