Women reclaiming the word SLUT
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12-12-2013, 12:35 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT




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12-12-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 12:15 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  My take on the slutwalks that the cause of rape is RAPISTS.

-not the way a woman dresses
-not that she sleeps around
-not that she's had too much to drink
-not because she's alone in a dark alley

Rape happens because of rapists. Stop blaming the victim. Clothes do not give a person permission to rape, promiscuity does not give permission to rape, not because she's alone, not because she's drunk.

None of that matters, none of it should be brought up in court, NONE.OF.IT.

rapists need to learn to not to commit crime.

Bollocks. Your argument is total bullshit. Rape can only happen if there's a rapist and a rapee (I just made that up). When have you heard of a rape that happened without a victim? Rape isn't a victimless crime. Without a victim, there's no rape.

Telling women to lessen the chances of them being the victim is common sense, and if the advice is followed, it is effective more often than not, which results in less rapes.

Telling would be rapists not to rape might be worth a shot, but in terms of effectiveness, you're far better off telling women to be careful not to get raped.

Let's put your logic to the test :

Do this : don't lock your front door, don't lock your car, leave your money and keys lying around wherever you go, when you withdraw money from an ATM do it so that people can see your PIN, when you cross the road don't look where you're going and don't give any signs to drivers that you intend to cross, you get the idea. Then, go around telling would be robbers, careless drivers and other naughty people to behave themselves.

You're using a strawman argument and then knocking it down. Your strawman argument is that rape victims are being blamed for being raped, then saying that they are not to blame. No, they are not to blame for being raped. Yes, the rapist is the one doing the bad thing. No one is saying that careless rape victims do bad things, but they are stupid for being careless. And stupid gets you into trouble, or at least invites trouble.

Rapists don't like wasting their time trying to find women who are smart. They go for women who will make it easy for them. Careless women are the prime candidates.

Your other strawman argument is about bringing up in court the fact that the woman was drunk or careless. No one is saying that it should be brought up in court. If someone rapes a woman, they need to be dealt with regardless. But we're talking about common sense here.

Nothing gives rapists permission to rape. But nobody said that. That's another strawman argument. Rape happens because of rapists and victims. Even women who are smart and use common sense can still be raped, but it's far less likely. So even though the rapist has to be held accountable for his actions, a wilfully careless victim is asking for trouble.

Here's another way for you to put your logic to the test : Go out one night wearing skimpy clothes, act like a hussy, chat to loads of men, and then walk home alone through the dodgiest part of town. If you don't get raped, congratulations. If you do, it's not that you deserved it, but you were stupid and by your actions you were asking for it because you tempted fate. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong, but it does mean that you did something stupid and you paid the price.
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12-12-2013, 05:00 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 03:41 PM)Kavos Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 12:15 PM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  My take on the slutwalks that the cause of rape is RAPISTS.

-not the way a woman dresses
-not that she sleeps around
-not that she's had too much to drink
-not because she's alone in a dark alley

Rape happens because of rapists. Stop blaming the victim. Clothes do not give a person permission to rape, promiscuity does not give permission to rape, not because she's alone, not because she's drunk.

None of that matters, none of it should be brought up in court, NONE.OF.IT.

rapists need to learn to not to commit crime.

Bollocks. Your argument is total bullshit. Rape can only happen if there's a rapist and a rapee (I just made that up). When have you heard of a rape that happened without a victim? Rape isn't a victimless crime. Without a victim, there's no rape.

Telling women to lessen the chances of them being the victim is common sense, and if the advice is followed, it is effective more often than not, which results in less rapes.

Telling would be rapists not to rape might be worth a shot, but in terms of effectiveness, you're far better off telling women to be careful not to get raped.

Let's put your logic to the test :

Do this : don't lock your front door, don't lock your car, leave your money and keys lying around wherever you go, when you withdraw money from an ATM do it so that people can see your PIN, when you cross the road don't look where you're going and don't give any signs to drivers that you intend to cross, you get the idea. Then, go around telling would be robbers, careless drivers and other naughty people to behave themselves.

You're using a strawman argument and then knocking it down. Your strawman argument is that rape victims are being blamed for being raped, then saying that they are not to blame. No, they are not to blame for being raped. Yes, the rapist is the one doing the bad thing. No one is saying that careless rape victims do bad things, but they are stupid for being careless. And stupid gets you into trouble, or at least invites trouble.

Rapists don't like wasting their time trying to find women who are smart. They go for women who will make it easy for them. Careless women are the prime candidates.

Your other strawman argument is about bringing up in court the fact that the woman was drunk or careless. No one is saying that it should be brought up in court. If someone rapes a woman, they need to be dealt with regardless. But we're talking about common sense here.

Nothing gives rapists permission to rape. But nobody said that. That's another strawman argument. Rape happens because of rapists and victims. Even women who are smart and use common sense can still be raped, but it's far less likely. So even though the rapist has to be held accountable for his actions, a wilfully careless victim is asking for trouble.

Here's another way for you to put your logic to the test : Go out one night wearing skimpy clothes, act like a hussy, chat to loads of men, and then walk home alone through the dodgiest part of town. If you don't get raped, congratulations. If you do, it's not that you deserved it, but you were stupid and by your actions you were asking for it because you tempted fate. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong, but it does mean that you did something stupid and you paid the price.

This just makes you an asshole. The point of the slutwalk is because women really do get blamed for being raped. And sometimes if the defense lawyer paints the victim into a "slut" an obviously guilty rapist will be found innocent. Rapists are the only ones to blame for rape. Yes there is always a victim and the victim is never at fault. 1) You can follow all the guidelines and still get raped
2) not being prepared for rape doesn't mean you deserve to be raped

Can you imagine a courtroom where the victim of a robbery was on the stand: so you had been drinking sir? Is it true that you only locked the bottom lock and not the deadbolt? In fact you've been known to leave your door unlocked when you're home and allow strangers in to use your phone or bathroom haven't you!? One might argue that you actually WANTED to be robbed!
Then, despite overwhelming evidence the robber is found innocent.
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12-12-2013, 06:02 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 05:00 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 03:41 PM)Kavos Wrote:  Bollocks. Your argument is total bullshit. Rape can only happen if there's a rapist and a rapee (I just made that up). When have you heard of a rape that happened without a victim? Rape isn't a victimless crime. Without a victim, there's no rape.

Telling women to lessen the chances of them being the victim is common sense, and if the advice is followed, it is effective more often than not, which results in less rapes.

Telling would be rapists not to rape might be worth a shot, but in terms of effectiveness, you're far better off telling women to be careful not to get raped.

Let's put your logic to the test :

Do this : don't lock your front door, don't lock your car, leave your money and keys lying around wherever you go, when you withdraw money from an ATM do it so that people can see your PIN, when you cross the road don't look where you're going and don't give any signs to drivers that you intend to cross, you get the idea. Then, go around telling would be robbers, careless drivers and other naughty people to behave themselves.

You're using a strawman argument and then knocking it down. Your strawman argument is that rape victims are being blamed for being raped, then saying that they are not to blame. No, they are not to blame for being raped. Yes, the rapist is the one doing the bad thing. No one is saying that careless rape victims do bad things, but they are stupid for being careless. And stupid gets you into trouble, or at least invites trouble.

Rapists don't like wasting their time trying to find women who are smart. They go for women who will make it easy for them. Careless women are the prime candidates.

Your other strawman argument is about bringing up in court the fact that the woman was drunk or careless. No one is saying that it should be brought up in court. If someone rapes a woman, they need to be dealt with regardless. But we're talking about common sense here.

Nothing gives rapists permission to rape. But nobody said that. That's another strawman argument. Rape happens because of rapists and victims. Even women who are smart and use common sense can still be raped, but it's far less likely. So even though the rapist has to be held accountable for his actions, a wilfully careless victim is asking for trouble.

Here's another way for you to put your logic to the test : Go out one night wearing skimpy clothes, act like a hussy, chat to loads of men, and then walk home alone through the dodgiest part of town. If you don't get raped, congratulations. If you do, it's not that you deserved it, but you were stupid and by your actions you were asking for it because you tempted fate. That doesn't mean you did anything wrong, but it does mean that you did something stupid and you paid the price.

This just makes you an asshole. The point of the slutwalk is because women really do get blamed for being raped. And sometimes if the defense lawyer paints the victim into a "slut" an obviously guilty rapist will be found innocent. Rapists are the only ones to blame for rape. Yes there is always a victim and the victim is never at fault. 1) You can follow all the guidelines and still get raped
2) not being prepared for rape doesn't mean you deserve to be raped

Can you imagine a courtroom where the victim of a robbery was on the stand: so you had been drinking sir? Is it true that you only locked the bottom lock and not the deadbolt? In fact you've been known to leave your door unlocked when you're home and allow strangers in to use your phone or bathroom haven't you!? One might argue that you actually WANTED to be robbed!
Then, despite overwhelming evidence the robber is found innocent.

The reason why I'm not an asshole is because I don't like to see women get raped, and I want them to take care of themselves so that they reduce the likelihood of it happening to them. That makes me a caring person, not an asshole. An asshole would want women to be careless. Do you have kids? Do you tell them to be careful? If so, then by your logic, you're an asshole. The reason why you call me an asshole is because you think women should be careless, and I think women should be careful for their own safety.

I don't know if there's something wrong with your eyes or maybe you're not very intelligent, but I believe I made myself quite clear when I said earlier that women aren't to blame for being raped. I'll say it again nice and clearly for you : No, it's not the woman's failt. No, she shouldn't be blamed. No, she doesn't deserve it. So don't pull that argument out of your ass again because it makes no sense.

Common sense dictates that if you wantt o avoid a bad thing being done to you by a bad person, you take precautions. Common sense doesn't make one an asshole. Would you call a woman an asshole if she took precautions to maximise her chances of being safe? Because that's what your logic implies. If I'm an asshole for suggesting it, then any woman who takes that advice is an asshole too. Surely you don't think women who don't want to be raped are assholes, do you now?

Do I sound like I care about women?
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12-12-2013, 06:13 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(11-12-2013 11:02 AM)Kavos Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 10:34 AM)QueenTit Wrote:  This totally touches on a subject that I'm passionate about.
Slut-shaming infuriates me. The fact that men are praised for having a high number of sexual partners and women are shamed/called derogatory names for it is ridiculous. I think it stems from the idea that women should be submissive and obedient (something that the church definitely promotes) and the myth that ALL women who have sex are doing it for emotional reasons. We're told that all women get emotionally attached when they have sex in ways that men don't, and we're taught that women who sleep with different partners/have one night stands are always doing so because they're lacking something emotionally (usually from some kind of daddy issue).
I think there are SO MANY women who are confident and who find enjoyment in having sex. Period. With as many or as few partners as they want. And there should be absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. The problem with the word slut is that it doesn't distinguish between motivation. If I'm single and I'm CHOOSING to have protected sex with a different guy every month and I leave each encounter feeling satisfied and empowered I'm still considered a slut.
I actually have no problem joking around and saying I've been a slut and I never mean it in a self-deprecating way.
I don't know if women should reclaim the word, if we should redefine it, or if we should just get rid of it altogether. What I do know is that women have the most power when it comes to the prospect of reclaiming the word because we're the ones who use it negatively about each other the most.

Exactly. The word slut is used as a weapon by men to shame women who wish to liberate themselves from gender norms. Perhaps the reason for the shaming is because so many women choose to go out every friday night half dressed, dance on tables, get blind drunk, and then go off with whoever had the tightest game that night to be used as a cum receptacle and then call that empowering, and then wonder why men don't respect them. But men don't get shamed in that way. If women wish to explore their sexuality, why is it anyone else's business? Why should women have to face judgment for their actions? This is why slut should either be used with pride, or at least use the word promiscuous with pride.

It's worth noting that slut-shaming is not EXCLUSIVE TO MEN.

Also worth noting that men are "Slut-shamed." They are called PLAYERS, and if you think for one second that men don't get any flack for sleeping around, then you are dead wrong.

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12-12-2013, 06:21 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 06:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 11:02 AM)Kavos Wrote:  Exactly. The word slut is used as a weapon by men to shame women who wish to liberate themselves from gender norms. Perhaps the reason for the shaming is because so many women choose to go out every friday night half dressed, dance on tables, get blind drunk, and then go off with whoever had the tightest game that night to be used as a cum receptacle and then call that empowering, and then wonder why men don't respect them. But men don't get shamed in that way. If women wish to explore their sexuality, why is it anyone else's business? Why should women have to face judgment for their actions? This is why slut should either be used with pride, or at least use the word promiscuous with pride.

It's worth noting that slut-shaming is not EXCLUSIVE TO MEN.

Also worth noting that men are "Slut-shamed." They are called PLAYERS, and if you think for one second that men don't get any flack for sleeping around, then you are dead wrong.

You think a man being called a player is going to make him feel shame? Oh dear, I don't know that you understand men all that much. Yes I'm sure that are some men out there who feel shame, there are always exceptions to most things, but by and large, for men it's a badge of honour. Do you tend to see men crying and complaining when someone calls them a dirty old dog or a rogue? Of course not. Men aren't bothered by it. Do men have their own version of slutwalks? No, because being promiscuous for a man isn't a source of shame. They feel no need to get on their high horse about it.

The real reason why women don't want to reclaim the word slut and turn it into a positive, and the real reason why they can't even bring themselves to at least use the word promiscuous with pride, is because instinctively, and without any social conditioning of any kind, it is human nature for men to strive to copulate with many women, and for women to tend to stick to just one guy. That's the real reason why there's so much resistance to it.

Women will never, ever, ever be ok with referring, pointing out, or emphasising promiscuity in females. It's a big no no and always will be. There may be some but it will never ever catch on. The natural stigma is too strong. It is not social conditioning. It's nature. Women know instinctively that being promiscuous is not appropriate. Otherwise, slut would have been reclaimed long ago.
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12-12-2013, 06:26 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 06:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(11-12-2013 11:02 AM)Kavos Wrote:  Exactly. The word slut is used as a weapon by men to shame women who wish to liberate themselves from gender norms. Perhaps the reason for the shaming is because so many women choose to go out every friday night half dressed, dance on tables, get blind drunk, and then go off with whoever had the tightest game that night to be used as a cum receptacle and then call that empowering, and then wonder why men don't respect them. But men don't get shamed in that way. If women wish to explore their sexuality, why is it anyone else's business? Why should women have to face judgment for their actions? This is why slut should either be used with pride, or at least use the word promiscuous with pride.

It's worth noting that slut-shaming is not EXCLUSIVE TO MEN.

Also worth noting that men are "Slut-shamed." They are called PLAYERS, and if you think for one second that men don't get any flack for sleeping around, then you are dead wrong.

More importantly, are you real Atothetheist or his mom?

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12-12-2013, 06:26 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2013 06:32 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 06:25 AM)Kavos Wrote:  They say that people shouldn't tell women to be careful and take precautions to lessen the chances of being raped, instead they want men to be told not to rape women. In fairyland, that would be great, but we don't live in fairyland. Women need to take personal responsibility if they don't want to get raped.

(12-12-2013 06:02 PM)Kavos Wrote:  The reason why I'm not an asshole is because I don't like to see women get raped, and I want them to take care of themselves so that they reduce the likelihood of it happening to them.

This reminds me of an exchange between a female Sgt and a civilian in my most recent Sexual Harassment/Assault Response and Prevention (SHARP) training. The Sgt shared that when she was in Iraq sexual assault was so rampant that they instituted a "buddy" system where women had to be accompanied after dark if they were walking anywhere. When asked how she felt about it she replied, "I found it demeaning and degrading."

(12-12-2013 05:00 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  This just makes you an asshole. The point of the slutwalk is because women really do get blamed for being raped.

Yup. Especially so in the military. Sexual assault is so rampant in the military (the majority of rape victims are men just due to the demographics) that they made Girly watch this movie as part of SHARP training. I found it extremely emotionally distressing. They said I could leave but I just sat there and cried my way through it.






















#sigh
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12-12-2013, 06:28 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 06:21 PM)Kavos Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 06:13 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  It's worth noting that slut-shaming is not EXCLUSIVE TO MEN.

Also worth noting that men are "Slut-shamed." They are called PLAYERS, and if you think for one second that men don't get any flack for sleeping around, then you are dead wrong.

You think a man being called a player is going to make him feel shame? Oh dear, I don't know that you understand men all that much. Yes I'm sure that are some men out there who feel shame, there are always exceptions to most things, but by and large, for men it's a badge of honour. Do you tend to see men crying and complaining when someone calls them a dirty old dog or a rogue? Of course not. Men aren't bothered by it. Do men have their own version of slutwalks? No, because being promiscuous for a man isn't a source of shame. They feel no need to get on their high horse about it.

Somebody is generalizing a gender. And considering that I am a man, and when I get called a player because I am open about being polyamorous, I do feel hurt.

Not only that, but it's makes it harder for you to date women, when you have a nasty reputation for sleeping around.

Sure, you can claim that men don't feel as strong about the shaming, but you CAN'T claim it doesn't exist.

That's not to say that I am opposing you about the issue here. I believe what a woman does with her body is her business.

But, I am sick and tired of the word "men" being inserted and men being made out to be the bad guys here. Women slut shame as well.

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12-12-2013, 06:32 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
Girlyman,

Being accompanied after dark when walking around anywhere, in an environment where rape is quite common, sounds like good common sense. So what if they find it demeaning and degrading? It's a precaution. What's the alternative? Being careless and then maybe getting raped and feeling even more degraded?

Do you have a daughter? If so, would you prefer that she takes precautions, even if she doesn't like having to do it, or would you prefer that she gets raped?
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