Women reclaiming the word SLUT
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12-12-2013, 06:37 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 06:28 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 06:21 PM)Kavos Wrote:  You think a man being called a player is going to make him feel shame? Oh dear, I don't know that you understand men all that much. Yes I'm sure that are some men out there who feel shame, there are always exceptions to most things, but by and large, for men it's a badge of honour. Do you tend to see men crying and complaining when someone calls them a dirty old dog or a rogue? Of course not. Men aren't bothered by it. Do men have their own version of slutwalks? No, because being promiscuous for a man isn't a source of shame. They feel no need to get on their high horse about it.

Somebody is generalizing a gender. And considering that I am a man, and when I get called a player because I am open about being polyamorous, I do feel hurt.

Not only that, but it's makes it harder for you to date women, when you have a nasty reputation for sleeping around.

Sure, you can claim that men don't feel as strong about the shaming, but you CAN'T claim it doesn't exist.

That's not to say that I am opposing you about the issue here. I believe what a woman does with her body is her business.

But, I am sick and tired of the word "men" being inserted and men being made out to be the bad guys here. Women slut shame as well.

Oh for fucks sake, did you even read what I said or did you just skim through it selectively? I already said that there are exceptions to the rule, but the rule still stands. Most men don't care. You are not most men.

Oh yeah, women slut shame too. Men slut shame women, and women slut shame other women. What does that tell you? It says that we all naturally and instinctively know that promiscuity in women is a big no no. It's not appealing. Promiscuous women may be liked and men may have fun being with them, they may be bright, intelligent, etc etc, they may be nice people and whatnot, but as potential girlfriends and wives, it's a humongous turn off. Don't tell me that you'd be comfortable dating or being married to a woman who had sex with a ton of guys before you. Don't lie to yourself, you know it and I know it. Don't try to curry favour with women by ignoring the elephant in the room. Seriously man, it's lame. Come on.
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12-12-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 06:37 PM)Kavos Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 06:28 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Somebody is generalizing a gender. And considering that I am a man, and when I get called a player because I am open about being polyamorous, I do feel hurt.

Not only that, but it's makes it harder for you to date women, when you have a nasty reputation for sleeping around.

Sure, you can claim that men don't feel as strong about the shaming, but you CAN'T claim it doesn't exist.

That's not to say that I am opposing you about the issue here. I believe what a woman does with her body is her business.

But, I am sick and tired of the word "men" being inserted and men being made out to be the bad guys here. Women slut shame as well.

Oh for fucks sake, did you even read what I said or did you just skim through it selectively? I already said that there are exceptions to the rule, but the rule still stands. Most men don't care. You are not most men.

Oh yeah, women slut shame too. Men slut shame women, and women slut shame other women. What does that tell you? It says that we all naturally and instinctively know that promiscuity in women is a big no no. It's not appealing. Promiscuous women may be liked and men may have fun being with them, they may be bright, intelligent, etc etc, they may be nice people and whatnot, but as potential girlfriends and wives, it's a humongous turn off.
Anthropological evidence suggests that humans aren't naturally monogamous. Actually, slut shaming is only inherit in certain cultures. Victorian, for instance. In others, they have the power to express their sexuality freely. Actually, back in the day in some cultures, women were revered as things of beauty and the symbols of fertility.

So, in summary, I am doubtful of the claim that slutshaming is natural. It's much more likely a product of a society that (for some reason) values men more than women and have it in their minds that women should be lower than men.

Quote:Don't tell me that you'd be comfortable dating or being married to a woman who had sex with a ton of guys before you. Don't lie to yourself, you know it and I know it. Don't try to curry favour with women by ignoring the elephant in the room. Seriously man, it's lame. Come on.

This is the part where I would go say "Fuck off." Why? Because how dare you think you can make assumptions about me.

For your information, my girlfriend took my virginity, but I did not take hers. She has slept around, and I don't mind it one bit. Why? Because I love her, and because I know she has no sexually transmitted diseases.

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12-12-2013, 07:04 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 06:52 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  ...my girlfriend...has slept around, and I don't mind it one bit. Why? Because I love her, and because I know she has no sexually transmitted diseases.

Classic. Can I use that in my signature? Please, please, please.
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12-12-2013, 07:08 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 07:04 PM)Kavos Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 06:52 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  ...my girlfriend...has slept around, and I don't mind it one bit. Why? Because I love her, and because I know she has no sexually transmitted diseases.

Classic. Can I use that in my signature? Please, please, please.

I don't mean "slept around" in the sense that I am looking down at her. I mean in it the sense that she has had multiple different sexual partners before me.

I doubt I would keep sleeping (notice I didn't say I would STOP LOVING HER) with her if she had a STD, not because she is dirty, but because I don't want to catch anything.

She has been remarkably careful and I think that being careful is the way everybody should go about it, regardless if they are planning on only one partner.

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12-12-2013, 07:09 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 06:32 PM)Kavos Wrote:  Being accompanied after dark when walking around anywhere, in an environment where rape is quite common, sounds like good common sense. So what if they find it demeaning and degrading? It's a precaution. What's the alternative? Being careless and then maybe getting raped and feeling even more degraded?

Uh, prosecuting sexual assault and harassment in order to maintain discipline maybe? This is the goddam US military I'm talking about in that post for fuck's sake. If I recall correctly from my time in the USN maintaining discipline is like rule number fucking one. Watch the documentary.

(12-12-2013 06:32 PM)Kavos Wrote:  Do you have a daughter? If so, would you prefer that she takes precautions, even if she doesn't like having to do it, or would you prefer that she gets raped?

I do, she's 21 yo. And she ain't stupid. She don't need to be told by her daddy how to avoid being raped. She's perfectly capable of wielding her own pepper spray and knowing where not to go after dark unaccompanied. That'd just be condescending. ... But now that you mention it, maybe I'll get her a Taser for Festivus. She's always a tough one to shop for.

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12-12-2013, 07:21 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 07:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 06:32 PM)Kavos Wrote:  Being accompanied after dark when walking around anywhere, in an environment where rape is quite common, sounds like good common sense. So what if they find it demeaning and degrading? It's a precaution. What's the alternative? Being careless and then maybe getting raped and feeling even more degraded?

Uh, prosecuting sexual assault and harassment in order to maintain discipline maybe? This is the goddam US military I'm talking about in that post for fuck's sake. If I recall correctly from my time in the USN maintaining discipline is like rule number fucking one. Watch the documentary.

(12-12-2013 06:32 PM)Kavos Wrote:  Do you have a daughter? If so, would you prefer that she takes precautions, even if she doesn't like having to do it, or would you prefer that she gets raped?

I do, she's 21 yo. And she ain't stupid. She don't need to be told by her daddy how to avoid being raped. She's perfectly capable of wielding her own pepper spray and knowing where not to go after dark unaccompanied. That'd just be condescending. ... But now that you mention it, maybe I'll get her a Taser for Festivus. She's always a tough one to shop for.

Bad idea on the taser. They are very easy to disarm and use against a smaller person. Pepper spray is way more effective.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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12-12-2013, 07:26 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
So, back to the OP, why reclaim any of these useless words (I'm including the 2 others you mention earlier)?

Also, why would anyone ever say they don't care why men rape? Isn't this the key issue here? I would like to see more efforts to determine why men rape and come to solutions that put the burden on the potential rapists, not the potential victims.

As for suggesting rape victims "get over it", dude! You mentioned being mugged before. What if the mugger hacked off your arm with a machete in order to get your wallet from you? How easy would it be to simply "pull up your socks" after such an ordeal (joking aside)? Perhaps you just don't understand what it means to have been raped (not that I do either)? The "glimpse" you mention earlier did not sound like a violent episode to me, but I admit you did omit details. Were you brutalized in any way in that ordeal? Did you fear for you life? Would you have described the ordeal as violence upon your person?

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12-12-2013, 07:47 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(11-12-2013 10:34 AM)QueenTit Wrote:  Slut-shaming infuriates me. The fact that men are praised for having a high number of sexual partners and women are shamed/called derogatory names for it is ridiculous.

So.... do you praise men for having lots of partners? Is a man who has had 100 sexual partners more appealing than one who has had 10?

How about a woman who has previously had sex with every one of your partners? She just enjoys sex, so it certainly wouldn't bother you, right? Or maybe you would prefer her to have been less promiscuous?

Recent article I read cites a study which shows that the vast majority of women regret sleeping with certain people, while the vast majority of men regret NOT sleeping with certain people... So while shaming a woman for being promiscous is a shitty move, I can see how congratulating a man on his promiscuity is likely welcome. I do wonder if congratulating women on promiscuity would be as welcome. I suppose it would depend on the nature of the regrets displayed in the study, and how much social influence is involved...
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12-12-2013, 08:14 PM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
Woman gets raped by a stranger who broke into her house. She was watching TV, wearing track pants, a hoodie, and no makeup.

She should smarten up, protect herself and stop asking for it... Right Kavos? Dodgy
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13-12-2013, 04:20 AM
RE: Women reclaiming the word SLUT
(12-12-2013 07:08 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(12-12-2013 07:04 PM)Kavos Wrote:  Classic. Can I use that in my signature? Please, please, please.

I don't mean "slept around" in the sense that I am looking down at her. I mean in it the sense that she has had multiple different sexual partners before me.

I doubt I would keep sleeping (notice I didn't say I would STOP LOVING HER) with her if she had a STD, not because she is dirty, but because I don't want to catch anything.

She has been remarkably careful and I think that being careful is the way everybody should go about it, regardless if they are planning on only one partner.

When you said that your girlfriend slept around a lot, I know exactly what you meant. You meant that she was promiscuous, she had sex with lots of people. It's up to you if you want to look down on her, but what you said was clear and I know what you meant.

The issue here isn't the fact that she may or may not have caught something. That's not what I'm talking about. What I'm saying to you is that promiscuous women are more likely to be disloyal. You might think to yourself, well, what has one thing got to do with another? It turns out that they are linked. Maybe not directly, maybe not pedantically, but they are still linked.

Women, when they have sex, have a biological tendency to bond with the other person. Men have it too, but to a far lesser extent. This is why men can have sex with women and then just walk away, whereas when you have sex with a woman, she is more likely to feel lovey dovey towards you and want you to call her and so on. Even if she doesn't know you that well, she's driven to bond with you. There's a hormone called Oxytocin which is behind that drive.

But when a woman repeatedly has sex with multiple people, over time it erodes her ability to bond. The tendency is still there but it's weakened. Interactions become more meaningless. Intimacy is increasingly valued less. It's like, if you like chocolate but you eat it all the time, after a while it loses all its appeal. That's what happens to a woman as she has sex with more and more people.

In other words, her ability to bond with you is affected. In other words, she is more likely to cheat on you. I'm sorry to tell you but that's the truth. And if it happens (I hope it doesn't) you'll think back to this conversation and you'll kick yourself. I'm trying to help you.

So, you may think it's cute that she has lots of experience, you might think you're lucky to be with a woman who knows what she's doing, but that comes at a price.

Rather than trying to argue with what I've just told you, I suggest that you look into this for yourself. At the end of the day arguing with me isn't going to change the facts, so for your own sake, look into it.

And remember, you don't have the luxury of being unbiased. You're all loved up. You're not thinking straight because you have a lot invested in that woman. I understand.

In case you've spotted the apparent contradiction, let me explain to you that yes men also bond, but for men there are other factors involved. Women bond more easily after sex than men, and when a woman has sex with lots of people, unfortunately that bonding ability becomes eroded. The chances of her cheating on you are considerably higher because of her "cock count", I'm afraid.
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