Women - what they can do and not do
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12-09-2011, 11:34 PM
Women - what they can do and not do
Had an interesting conversation today with a Maori friend– the traditional means of cooking food in New Zealand (pre European Maori) is to dig a hole in the ground, fill with hot rocks, place food in wrapped in flax, cover and leave for 3-4 hours, this is called a hangi, – btw absolutely wonderful mouth-watering food - I found out today that women are not allowed to touch the hangi – ie not allowed to put the food in the baskets (or traditional flax wrapping), not allowed to touch the cooking rocks, the covering or take the food out of the hangi (oh they can prepare and serve lol) – if they do all the food has to be discarded – (and is very strongly adhered to even today).

We were discussing the similarities of this to other cultures and came to the conclusion it was to do with women’s cycles - similar to the ‘unclean’ women in the bible, and were quite fascinated with this idea that women are somehow unclean when they have their periods. How common is this in various cultures? Does anyone know?

I want for myself what I want for every women, absolute equality. Agnes Macphail
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13-09-2011, 01:24 AM
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
I disagree with this, the bible is much more food efficient Big Grin


[Image: make-me-a-sandwich.jpg]

[Image: Women-In-The-Bible.jpg]


But you're right about unclean women. The book Leviticus is kind of extreme in that area. I wonder if men made their own sandwiches when woman had their period?

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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13-09-2011, 05:26 AM
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
The Sambia Tribe in New Guinea segragate the sexes......they have an initiation ceremony for boys to turn them into "men"......including homosexuality, nose bleeding and later on down the line...........


The forth stage occurs when he is married, usually to a bride obtained by his father or older brothers. A youth will not start living with this bride until short before or after her menarche, the first menstrual period, occurring during puberty. However, he is now told how to protect himself from women’s genital odor. While having intercourse he must not penetrate too deeply because if it enters her uterus it might make him ill. "A ceremony now links the youth’s growth, strength, as that of a specific tree. This is where the youth is now exposed to the women after he has been forewarned about every dangerous thing that a women can posses against a man.

The fifth stage of initiation now takes about at the time of his wife’s menarche. His nose is now bled once more by himself and he learns in great detail how to protect himself from his wife’s pollution in greater detail. In certain cases he must place mint leaves in his nostrils and chew a certain branch while having intercourse will this wife so he will not smell his wife’s genital odor. After this, he must bathe in a bath of mud and bleed his nose each time his wife menstruates. He begins to be hostile with his wife because he is upset that he has to nose bleed each time she menstruates because she pollutes him and endangers his life. "The initiate is now a man who has been isolated from women for a 12 years; he has practiced homosexual fellatio, and has even had the dangers of vaginal intercourse readily. His young wife has been taught to practice fellatio before they even attempt to vaginal intercourse. She must ingest the semen given to her by her husband to later be able to provide from her child while producing breast milk and strong bones. It is believe that breast milk is transformed semen and therefore it is the men who indirectly nourish the baby.

Christians on crusades years ago would of called them "savages"..........oh the irony Big Grin

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13-09-2011, 08:04 AM (This post was last modified: 13-09-2011 09:54 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
Morbid fascination with blood.
I suppose, early people had witnessed enough death from loss of blood to form an indelible pattern: bleeding=peril. And something humans have always done is to confront their fears by controlling the cause, in a ritual representation. Bungee-jumping, bullfights, fire-eating. And deliberate limited bleeding.
Menstrual blood is frightening and yet indispensable to the creation of new life. That makes its power enormous. It must be ritualized, even though uncontrollable.

Here is a nice example of the contradictory attitude

Quote: wikipedia:
In the Hindu faith, women are prohibited from participating in normal life while menstruating. She must be "purified" before she is allowed to return to her family, which has been presented as a negative view of menstruation.
However in some respects Indians view menstruation, especially first menstruation or menarche, as a positive aspect of a girl's life. In South India, girls who experience their menstrual period for the first time are given presents and celebrations to mark this special occasion,
though women who are menstruating are not allowed in the household for a period of 3 nights.

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13-09-2011, 08:49 AM
 
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
Quote:Peterkin: Menstrual blood is frightening and yet indispensable to the creation of new life

The gods really screwed up here with their "intelligent design"!

Sad
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13-09-2011, 02:10 PM
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
An unfortunate side affect of a pattern recognizing brain. Woman bleed once a month.... it must "mean" something. They did the best they could with what they had (nothing).... to bad most of it carried over to today.

Sort of like the brain. They thought the brain was just "filler" for the head and all your thinking was done in your heart. We still speak about it as such even though we know no "thinking" happens there.

"Jesus spoke to my heart"

"My heart tells me...."

"Listen to your heart..."

I still see movies creating a dichotomy of "brain" and "heart". Old "wrong" ideas die hard....

“We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.” Orson Welles
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13-09-2011, 02:27 PM
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
Wow! The Sambia tribal beliefs take all the pleasure, fun and romance out of sex. And I thought Pentecostals ruined good sex! Sounds awful!

“There is no sin except stupidity.” Oscar Wilde
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13-09-2011, 04:26 PM
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
When I was growing up in the U.K. it was commonly known that women attended a ceremony in church known as "churching". This was held to "purify" the woman after giving birth, as she was held to be "unclean" until she was "churched"

Research shows that this ritual is not common these days, although still carried out on some Eastern Catholic churches.

It is still carried out by some Jewish churches.

I understand that ritual purification is obligatory after menstruation for Islamic women .

Kalash women in Pakistan must leave the village on menstruating, as it's considered to be confirmation of women's impurity. They spend time in a special menstruation hut and can only return to the village after a cleansing ritual.

Is this really 2011 or am I living in some sort of time warp?

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almost enough to make one insane."

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13-09-2011, 05:16 PM
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
Getting away from impurity for a bit, there are probably still a lot of things in many societies that women are considered too pure or sensitive for. Coarse language, for example, or martial arts contests?

Until quite recently in the west, women were considered too delicate for medical school, where they would have to see and touch naked men, and corpses and organs - eeeww!
(Who has always gutted the chickens, dressed the wounds and washed the dead?)

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13-09-2011, 05:31 PM
RE: Women - what they can do and not do
(13-09-2011 05:16 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Getting away from impurity for a bit, there are probably still a lot of things in many societies that women are considered too pure or sensitive for. Coarse language, for example, or martial arts contests?

Until quite recently in the west, women were considered too delicate for medical school, where they would have to see and touch naked men, and corpses and organs - eeeww!
(Who has always gutted the chickens, dressed the wounds and washed the dead?)

It always amazes me that women want to do boxing. It's not the "sensitivity" issue that bothers me, it's just that I always considered that women were too intelligent to want to stand and punch each other as a spectator sport , inflicting pain, like Neanderthal men do.

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
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