Woo is woo, religious or not.
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08-03-2013, 09:58 PM
RE: Woo is woo, religious or not.
(08-03-2013 02:48 AM)Jakel Wrote:  
(08-03-2013 12:31 AM)ufo42 Wrote:  You're welcome. I hope it shocked some sense into you. 20 seconds (s is short for seconds for anyone who has ever taken a post-secondary science class) of inconvenience vs doing something to protect any people around you who for whatever reason can't be vaccinated from catching a potentially deadly disease from you.... and as a side-benefit, reducing your chance of spending a week or 6 coughing and feeling lousy with headaches, muscle aches, and fever. The flu vaccine varies in effectiveness from 60 to 80% depending on what is happening with the current year's influenza viruses. It is by no means perfect, but doing nothing is a lot worse. You don't have to be convinced of anything to do the right thing. You just have to trust that people who spent 8+ years and piled up massive student loans slogging through university and grad school classes just might know a bit more about the topics they've studied than Jenny McCarthy or that venal bastard in England who faked studies showing a connection between autism and the MMR vaccine for fun and profit... Ex-Doctor Wakefield.
Seconds was my guess too, I just wanted to be sure. For some reason I thought you meant some kind of currency...

Dude, have you even read my earlier posts? I said Chas was probably right after he made his points. I'm trying to get some info on the mortality rates on the flu for healthy adults, since they are apparently way higher then I thought. Also I'm not against vaccinations, as I have earlier said. And even though I'm skeptical about the effectiveness about yearly flu vaccinations contra the consequences of getting different kinds of autoimmune diseases etc., I'm not against them.

I don't have a massive student loan (Yeah Denmark!), and I have only studied math, probability theory and statistics for 5 years in university. But you need to trust ME, when I say that doctors (at least in Denmark) don't know shit about statistical inference. I lived with quite a few medical students, they don't learn much in that area. So excuse me for being a little skeptical.

So if you don't have a link to what I asked, don't bother ranting on. We are on the same fucking side idiot...
Sorry, I mistook you for IandI or someone with the same mindset. The death rate from flu varies immensely from year to year. Taking the vaccine is always a good idea because the downside is negligible and the upside can be anything from not a whole lot, to a matter of life and death for millions. Check out the links I posted earlier in response to IandI's rants. IMHO, even the least accomplished med. student probably knows a whole lot more about stats than Jenny McCarthy and probably are less motivated to lie about the science than someone like ex-Dr. Wakefield. I don't know what med schools are like these days, but when I was taking physics in the late 60s, and Early 70's in Canada, med students had to first get a science degree before they could even get into med school and pre-med classes did include statistics and math. My doctor is now in his late 70s and is a graduate from the same University (Saskatoon, Sask.). He seems to be up to date with the latest science and seems pretty astute in separating woo from science.



http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/inde...-efficacy/

http://www.quackwatch.com/

http://edgydoc.com/

"Heresy makes for progress" - Hypatia Bradlaugh Bonner
[1 Corinthians 13:11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. - The Bible King James Version. See? Even the Bible says "Put me down!" Big Grin
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09-03-2013, 12:08 PM
Woo is woo, religious or not.
Some of you guys have made references to past diseases or different diseases like SARS which have absolutely nothing to do with what the flu vaccine is supposedly for.
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09-03-2013, 12:17 PM
Woo is woo, religious or not.
If flu vaccines are needed each year due to changes in the virus, that would mean a vaccine for 2013 is based on the strain from 2012. Again making the vaccine a waste of time and money.

Making it further a waste of time and money would be the fact that there is no guarantee that the vaccine makes one immune to the flu virus, and this would be due to the fact that the flu has many different strands which like he common cold make it impossible to make on immune to it.
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09-03-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Woo is woo, religious or not.
(09-03-2013 12:17 PM)I and I Wrote:  If flu vaccines are needed each year due to changes in the virus, that would mean a vaccine for 2013 is based on the strain from 2012. Again making the vaccine a waste of time and money.

Making it further a waste of time and money would be the fact that there is no guarantee that the vaccine makes one immune to the flu virus, and this would be due to the fact that the flu has many different strands which like he common cold make it impossible to make on immune to it.


The vaccine is not based on last year's flu, it is based on the most recently emerged strains. The vaccine is typically active against multiple strains.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-03-2013, 01:54 PM
Woo is woo, religious or not.
CDC admits that the vaccine is no guarantee that one will not get the flu.

The CDC also admits that the flu vaccine is only 55 percent effective. How they come up with this number is probably guessing.

My sources are the CDC, what are your sources?


Checkmate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/...72247.html
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09-03-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: Woo is woo, religious or not.
(09-03-2013 01:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  CDC admits that the vaccine is no guarantee that one will not get the flu.

The CDC also admits that the flu vaccine is only 55 percent effective. How they come up with this number is probably guessing.

My sources are the CDC, what are your sources?


Checkmate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/...72247.html


Checkmate what? I never claimed 100% effectiveness; no vaccine is.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-03-2013, 02:42 PM
Woo is woo, religious or not.
(09-03-2013 02:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 01:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  CDC admits that the vaccine is no guarantee that one will not get the flu.

The CDC also admits that the flu vaccine is only 55 percent effective. How they come up with this number is probably guessing.

My sources are the CDC, what are your sources?


Checkmate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/...72247.html


Checkmate what? I never claimed 100% effectiveness; no vaccine is.

So you like the flu vaccine just for the hell of it?
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09-03-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: Woo is woo, religious or not.
(09-03-2013 02:42 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 02:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  Checkmate what? I never claimed 100% effectiveness; no vaccine is.

So you like the flu vaccine just for the hell of it?


Now you are being obtuse.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-03-2013, 03:29 PM
Woo is woo, religious or not.
(09-03-2013 02:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(09-03-2013 02:42 PM)I and I Wrote:  So you like the flu vaccine just for the hell of it?


Now you are being obtuse.

No seriously why do you support the flu vaccine after what even the CDC says about it?
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09-03-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: Woo is woo, religious or not.
(09-03-2013 01:54 PM)I and I Wrote:  CDC admits that the vaccine is no guarantee that one will not get the flu.

The CDC also admits that the flu vaccine is only 55 percent effective. How they come up with this number is probably guessing.

My sources are the CDC, what are your sources?


Checkmate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/...72247.html
No one says any vaccine is 100% effective. Seatbelts aren't 100% effective either. Smoking doesn't give you 100% chance of getting lung cancer. None of those facts are reasons to be stupid and ignore the benefits of vaccines, seatbelts, or not smoking. CDC does not guess. They gather statistics about how many people who have and haven't been vaccinated and get either the flu or some other condition and work out the risk / benefit ratios from those numbers. If the risk came even close to outweighing the benefit, they would not recommend general distribution of the vaccine. My sources are the CDC and the real, qualified doctors of sites like http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ . Yours seem to be websites distorting the science to support their insane conspiracy theories.

"Heresy makes for progress" - Hypatia Bradlaugh Bonner
[1 Corinthians 13:11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. - The Bible King James Version. See? Even the Bible says "Put me down!" Big Grin
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