"Words have different meanings..."
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-06-2016, 05:51 PM
RE: "Words have different meanings..."
(02-06-2016 10:22 AM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  The title of this thread was the exact words that a religious co-worker said to me when I pointed out this contradiction between Genesis 22:1 and James 1:13 regarding the God tempting people.

this is a common tap dance that those who are uneducated in the historicity of the bible make. Take for example the most used version of "words have different meanings".....day.....the world could have been created by god in 6 days because a day is different for god than man....a day is (pick your BS)...a thousand years, etc....

For example the old fav "you don't know how long a day in god's word is" weak sauce argument...yes, actually we do, all one has to do is a comparative study of the bible and the usage of the word....that would require one to actually read the bible though...and analyze it....Those who argue that the word "day" means "long age," point out that the Hebrew word, yom, can have a number of meanings, only one of which is "day of 24 hours." They further seek to strengthen their position with the use of Psalm 90:4 and II Peter 3:8, comparing a day to a thousand years. Both of these verses, however, are simply using figures of speech (similes) to show that God is not constrained by the same time parameters as are humans. These verses are really irrelevant to the discussion of the meaning of "day," in Genesis 1.

It is recognized, of course, that the word "day" can be used with a number of variations. It can have any of five meanings: 1) a period of light; 2) a period of 24 hours; 3) a general, vague time; 4) a point of time; 5) a year. The context determines which of these is intended by the writer. The English language also can have up to 14 definitions for the word "day." The reader should be reminded that the purpose of language is to communicate. The mythical Moses wrote in a language that was meant to communicate to his readers. Words must be defined by their relationship to one another. Word meaning must be determined from within its context. It will be shown how the context defines the word in Genesis 1.

The use of a number with the word "day" is very illuminating. This combination occurs 357 times outside of Genesis 1. The combination is used in four different ways, but each time it is used, it must mean 24-hour periods of time. If the combinations had been intended to mean long periods of time, both the texts and contexts then become meaningless. A typical verse is Genesis 30:36: "And he (Laban) set three days journey betwixt himself and Jacob." God frequently issued commands that the people were to do or not to do certain things on a given day. This use occurs 162 times. A good example is Exodus 24:16: "And the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days, and on the seventh day He called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud."

These are the most typical uses of the word "day" with a number. Four times the terms are used to show a starting point. Ezra 3:6 says, "From the first day of the seventh month they began to offer burnt offerings unto the Lord." A number may also be used with "day" to convey an ending point. An example is Leviticus 19:6: "It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire." It would appear, then, that whenever the Old Testament uses a number with the word "day," it means a 24-hour period of time without any demonstrable exception.

If the meaning of the word "day" with a number always means a 24-hour period of time outside of Genesis 1, then it should also mean a 24-hour period of time inside Genesis 1. The words that Moses used to communicate what God did during creation are very significant. If Moses had meant to signify that the "days" were more than 24 hours in length, he could easily have done so. If we are to understand what Moses wrote, then the language he used must be understood in its normal meaning. The normal meaning is that of 24-hour periods of time.

Smartass

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
02-06-2016, 07:25 PM
RE: "Words have different meanings..."
(02-06-2016 05:51 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 10:22 AM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  The title of this thread was the exact words that a religious co-worker said to me when I pointed out this contradiction between Genesis 22:1 and James 1:13 regarding the God tempting people.

this is a common tap dance that those who are uneducated in the historicity of the bible make. Take for example the most used version of "words have different meanings".....day.....the world could have been created by god in 6 days because a day is different for god than man....a day is (pick your BS)...a thousand years, etc....

For example the old fav "you don't know how long a day in god's word is" weak sauce argument...yes, actually we do, all one has to do is a comparative study of the bible and the usage of the word....that would require one to actually read the bible though...and analyze it....Those who argue that the word "day" means "long age," point out that the Hebrew word, yom, can have a number of meanings, only one of which is "day of 24 hours." They further seek to strengthen their position with the use of Psalm 90:4 and II Peter 3:8, comparing a day to a thousand years. Both of these verses, however, are simply using figures of speech (similes) to show that God is not constrained by the same time parameters as are humans. These verses are really irrelevant to the discussion of the meaning of "day," in Genesis 1.

It is recognized, of course, that the word "day" can be used with a number of variations. It can have any of five meanings: 1) a period of light; 2) a period of 24 hours; 3) a general, vague time; 4) a point of time; 5) a year. The context determines which of these is intended by the writer. The English language also can have up to 14 definitions for the word "day." The reader should be reminded that the purpose of language is to communicate. The mythical Moses wrote in a language that was meant to communicate to his readers. Words must be defined by their relationship to one another. Word meaning must be determined from within its context. It will be shown how the context defines the word in Genesis 1.

The use of a number with the word "day" is very illuminating. This combination occurs 357 times outside of Genesis 1. The combination is used in four different ways, but each time it is used, it must mean 24-hour periods of time. If the combinations had been intended to mean long periods of time, both the texts and contexts then become meaningless. A typical verse is Genesis 30:36: "And he (Laban) set three days journey betwixt himself and Jacob." God frequently issued commands that the people were to do or not to do certain things on a given day. This use occurs 162 times. A good example is Exodus 24:16: "And the glory of the Lord abode upon Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days, and on the seventh day He called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud."

These are the most typical uses of the word "day" with a number. Four times the terms are used to show a starting point. Ezra 3:6 says, "From the first day of the seventh month they began to offer burnt offerings unto the Lord." A number may also be used with "day" to convey an ending point. An example is Leviticus 19:6: "It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire." It would appear, then, that whenever the Old Testament uses a number with the word "day," it means a 24-hour period of time without any demonstrable exception.

If the meaning of the word "day" with a number always means a 24-hour period of time outside of Genesis 1, then it should also mean a 24-hour period of time inside Genesis 1. The words that Moses used to communicate what God did during creation are very significant. If Moses had meant to signify that the "days" were more than 24 hours in length, he could easily have done so. If we are to understand what Moses wrote, then the language he used must be understood in its normal meaning. The normal meaning is that of 24-hour periods of time.

Smartass

Doing the interpretation game is just a shell game, you just shuffle around whatever meaning you want for a Hebrew word and cherry-pick your definitions to suit your purposes. I FUCKING HATE THIS! This is a dishonest and deceitful game, let's run the basic numbers.

If a scripture has four words that could mean 3 different thing for each of those words, that's 4x3=12.

That's 12 different meanings or "contexts" this scripture could mean. You could imagine expanding this dishonest technique (hermeneutics) to the thousands of verses in the bi-bull. You literally cherry-pick and make your own religion up on the fly. It is the height of dishonesty, it's what the super-chucklefuck Q used to hand-wave away any arguments against his individually interpreted bible.

It's what intellectual con artists use to sell their product. Just play fucking word games with someone until they're so confused they don't even know what to believe, but maybe they'll fall on their knees and cry out to Jeebus to make it stop.

Ok, time to institute my drinking game, I'm taking another shot of Tequila for all of these chucklefucks that try to peddle their truth in the form of interpretation.

Tequila>hermeneutics, also greater than Jeebus!

[Image: Tequila-Shot-Lime.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheInquisition's post
02-06-2016, 07:28 PM
RE: "Words have different meanings..."
2nd thread. Same subject.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Banjo's post
05-06-2016, 03:37 PM
RE: "Words have different meanings..."
(02-06-2016 10:41 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(02-06-2016 10:22 AM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  The title of this thread was the exact words that a religious co-worker said to me when I pointed out this contradiction between Genesis 22:1 and
regarding the God tempting people.

Words can have different meanings but that's not a sufficient response. They would need to explain what the different meanings are.

Genesis 22:1
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said to him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man:

I don't know of any definitions that would make this not a contradiction.

A. God tempted abraham Evil_monster
B. God doesn't tempt anyone Consider
C. A&B are contradictions Dodgy
D. God's characteristics is poorly defined... again Dodgy
E. an ill-defined god is a god that can't be distinguished from fantasy Dodgy
F. there is no point in discussing this matter further
G. this argument is self defeating
H. mental gymnastics required for maintaining belief is not worth the effort
I. and why are you still reading this after what I said in (F) Smartass
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Ace's post
05-06-2016, 05:31 PM
RE: "Words have different meanings..."
"Do you even know what words mean?"
--David Cross

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2016, 09:51 PM
RE: "Words have different meanings..."
(02-06-2016 10:22 AM)SkepticalDaniel Wrote:  The title of this thread was the exact words that a religious co-worker said to me when I pointed out this contradiction between Genesis 22:1 and James 1:13 regarding the God tempting people.
It's called equivocation!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivocation

Sapere aude
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: