Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
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03-12-2015, 06:59 PM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
(03-12-2015 06:49 PM)Alla Wrote:  OK, thanks for helping me to know that ISIS are not Islamic and not believers in God but atheists. Thumbsup

Sure thing, no problem, Allah. I could tell you really needed the help. It sounds like you've got it all sorted now. Smile

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03-12-2015, 07:03 PM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
Alla has to be a troll. Nobody could be that stupid. I don't get what he or she gets out of this idiocy???

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03-12-2015, 07:17 PM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
No, ISIS / ISIL / IS / DAESH / whatever is quite explicit about their beliefs. They're firmly motivated by an extremist Islamic philosophy and worship the god of Abraham, of Jacob, and of Moses. The main differences of doctrine between Christianity and Islam is whether Jesus was an outright messiah and some flavor of deity-man (son of god, god embodied, wholly god wholly man, something like that) or just another prophet to be honored with the rest, and whether another more significant prophet came along after that.

But that doctrinal dispute doesn't change which god Muslims, even fanatical Muslims, worship. It's the same god that the Christians (including Mormons) and Jews worship.
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04-12-2015, 10:25 AM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
(03-12-2015 07:17 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  No, ISIS / ISIL / IS / DAESH / whatever is quite explicit about their beliefs. They're firmly motivated by an extremist Islamic philosophy and worship the god of Abraham, of Jacob, and of Moses. The main differences of doctrine between Christianity and Islam is whether Jesus was an outright messiah and some flavor of deity-man (son of god, god embodied, wholly god wholly man, something like that) or just another prophet to be honored with the rest, and whether another more significant prophet came along after that.

But that doctrinal dispute doesn't change which god Muslims, even fanatical Muslims, worship. It's the same god that the Christians (including Mormons) and Jews worship.
Correct. But Obama doesn't call ISIS what they really are. Obama plays word games.

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04-12-2015, 10:27 AM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
(03-12-2015 07:03 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Alla has to be a troll. Nobody could be that stupid. I don't get what he or she gets out of this idiocy???

If according to Obama ISIS are not Muslims, then what are they? JV Laugh out load
We have very "smart" president. Even Ben Carson doesn't say stupid things like this.

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04-12-2015, 10:52 AM (This post was last modified: 04-12-2015 10:59 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
(04-12-2015 10:25 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-12-2015 07:17 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  No, ISIS / ISIL / IS / DAESH / whatever is quite explicit about their beliefs. They're firmly motivated by an extremist Islamic philosophy and worship the god of Abraham, of Jacob, and of Moses. The main differences of doctrine between Christianity and Islam is whether Jesus was an outright messiah and some flavor of deity-man (son of god, god embodied, wholly god wholly man, something like that) or just another prophet to be honored with the rest, and whether another more significant prophet came along after that.

But that doctrinal dispute doesn't change which god Muslims, even fanatical Muslims, worship. It's the same god that the Christians (including Mormons) and Jews worship.
Correct. But Obama doesn't call ISIS what they really are. Obama plays word games.

It's like the game that Bill O'Reilly played when he said that the Norwegian camp shooter wasn't a Christian. He's not denying the religion-specific nature of their beliefs or motivations, but he's saying that by their actions they've fallen below the moral threshold required to qualify as being a member of the religious group.

But it's only a little like it. The reason that O'Reilly was playing the game was because he was on the defensive, refusing to see his religion as possibly associated with something evil and trying to convince people that it had never sprouted any bad fruit, and so was ad-hoc denying a connection, especially in light of how borderline he is. Covering his ass. I think the reason that Obama's playing the game (EDIT: the reason is less transparent in his case) is to shame Muslims away from radicalization and prevent a backlash against moderate Muslims who have nothing to do with ISIS.

EDIT-ADDITION: Under both the O'Reilly game and the Obama spin, the people being condemned would still not be atheists. They would, after all, believe in the existence of a god and be motivated by it. They'd fall in a category of... I dunno, "wannabe" Christians and Muslims. Believing and acting on those beliefs, but not quite clearing some ill-defined "you must be less than this much of a monster to ride this religion" line. It's a silly distinction to draw, but even if we grant it it still doesn't make them atheists.
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04-12-2015, 04:37 PM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
Reltzik Wrote:It's like the game that Bill O'Reilly played when he said that the Norwegian camp shooter wasn't a Christian. He's not denying the religion-specific nature of their beliefs or motivations, but he's saying that by their actions they've fallen below the moral threshold required to qualify as being a member of the religious group.
Bill O'Reilly is correct. Gospel of Christ doesn't teach to kill people. So, Norwegian guy fell bellow.
Obama is wrong. Islam teaches to kill infidels. Obama is playing words game. He always does.

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04-12-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
Right. Because when a Christian kills an infidel for being an infidel, they automatically get excommunicated from all denominations of Christianity, rather than just being seen as a bad Christian who needs reforming. Just like when they violate the Christian injunction not to render judgement against others, they aren't Christians then. This is why the entire Inquisition, all of Charlemagne's priests, and... oh, to pick one more of the countless contenders in a very strong field, the Ulster Protestant Volunteers are all nowadays universally recognized as not consisting of Christians.

Oh, and the maniacs in Salem who, just as the Bible commanded, executed people for witchcraft.

Facepalm

There are Christian terrorists out there. Call them BAD Christians if you want. Say they aren't true Christians. Say they're interpreting things wrong and giving Verse A precedence over Verse B when they should be giving B precedence over A. But don't deny that they do what they do BECAUSE of the religion they subscribe to, BECAUSE of the holy texts, BECAUSE of their faith, BECAUSE they have this dangerous and disastrous belief that some all-powerful being in heavens approves of and commands their actions. And if you do play that "not a true Christian" game, then -- and I know this is hard for a Christian apologist, nay, impossible, but I shall demand it anyway as being well below the baseline for having the slightest shred of honesty -- do NOT then hypocritically criticize others for playing the same game.

Should Obama be calling a spade a spade? Definitely.

So should O'Reilly. And if you think that HE isn't always playing word games, you've lost your mind. It's called politics.
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04-12-2015, 05:16 PM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
(04-12-2015 05:06 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Should Obama be calling a spade a spade? Definitely.
So should O'Reilly. And if you think that HE isn't always playing word games, you've lost your mind. It's called politics.

Agreed. Bill O'Reilly and Obama have to stop to play words games.
Obama is not afraid to call bad Christians "Christians", but he will never call bad Muslims "Muslims".

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05-12-2015, 09:18 AM
RE: Words matter in ISIS war. Boston Globe.
(04-12-2015 05:16 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(04-12-2015 05:06 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  Should Obama be calling a spade a spade? Definitely.
So should O'Reilly. And if you think that HE isn't always playing word games, you've lost your mind. It's called politics.

Agreed. Bill O'Reilly and Obama have to stop to play words games.
Obama is not afraid to call bad Christians "Christians", but he will never call bad Muslims "Muslims".

When did he ever call bad Christians "Christians"? Please provide a citation.

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