World Cup Predictions
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02-07-2014, 08:33 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
(02-07-2014 07:49 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The last sentence of that was separated because it was mostly in jest. But in response to Hughsies statement about the coaching and conditioning well the US Women's national team does have the tradition the Men's team lacks and their coach is world class. I don't think Non-Americans get how into sports we are here are some pictures of a Super Bowl champion American Football teams training facilities.

[Image: baltimore-ravens.jpg]

[Image: ravens_training_facility-6--nfl_large_58...height=465]

[Image: 61044d1168366575-b-more-ravens-training-facility-10.jpg]

[Image: f92e7994c8bfb239f16cdd71c35bd125.jpg?itok=TfqSBDX1]

[Image: ravens_20090526121200.png]

[Image: fa02eb2d43b94cca825386734149b64c.jpg]

This is a multi-million dollar facility that is just for training purposes. I think we would do alright in League play if our focus was there. Granted it is ironic to hear the Brit criticise the American National Team that advanced further than the vaunted British team (did they make the second week?)

Yeah, but the rest of the world doesn't really care that much about women's football (not trying to be sexist or anything, just a fact of life). It kinda illustrates my point that American's will only get behind sports that the rest of the world don't, satisfying their sense of superiority.

As for the idea that having high national interest, a large population, and footballing tradition is enough to make you a dominant force, I'm from England, we have all that but we're still pretty bad. I'm not saying America wouldn't be a stronger/strong team with all that, but it's not enough to dominate. When you look at the history of football it tends to go in cycles, teams rise and fall, no team dominates for huge periods. Even Brazil, by far the most successful national team in the history of football, have only won the World Cup five times. I don't think any other team has won it more than two or three. Playing styles follow the same pattern, one will become the widely accepted best style of play but it will only last for a few years before another style of play emerges to take it's place, and then that one will be replaced by another. All this makes it even harder for teams to dominate for long periods.

As for England, we did reach the second week (the group stages lasted more than a week), but I accept that England are shit. However, that hardly means that I can't have any knowledge on football, it simply means that England have a long history of making completely awful managerial appointments (ironically, when I was staunchly against the current manager being appointed, the one I wanted was the one currently managing the USA, kinda feeling vindicated on that one).

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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02-07-2014, 08:40 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
(02-07-2014 08:33 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 07:49 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  The last sentence of that was separated because it was mostly in jest. But in response to Hughsies statement about the coaching and conditioning well the US Women's national team does have the tradition the Men's team lacks and their coach is world class. I don't think Non-Americans get how into sports we are here are some pictures of a Super Bowl champion American Football teams training facilities.

[Image: baltimore-ravens.jpg]

[Image: ravens_training_facility-6--nfl_large_58...height=465]

[Image: 61044d1168366575-b-more-ravens-training-facility-10.jpg]

[Image: f92e7994c8bfb239f16cdd71c35bd125.jpg?itok=TfqSBDX1]

[Image: ravens_20090526121200.png]

[Image: fa02eb2d43b94cca825386734149b64c.jpg]

This is a multi-million dollar facility that is just for training purposes. I think we would do alright in League play if our focus was there. Granted it is ironic to hear the Brit criticise the American National Team that advanced further than the vaunted British team (did they make the second week?)

Yeah, but the rest of the world doesn't really care that much about women's football (not trying to be sexist or anything, just a fact of life). It kinda illustrates my point that American's will only get behind sports that the rest of the world don't, satisfying their sense of superiority.

As for the idea that having high national interest, a large population, and footballing tradition is enough to make you a dominant force, I'm from England, we have all that but we're still pretty bad. I'm not saying America wouldn't be a stronger/strong team with all that, but it's not enough to dominate. When you look at the history of football it tends to go in cycles, teams rise and fall, no team dominates for huge periods. Even Brazil, by far the most successful national team in the history of football, have only won the World Cup five times. I don't think any other team has won it more than two or three. Playing styles follow the same pattern, one will become the widely accepted best style of play but it will only last for a few years before another style of play emerges to take it's place, and then that one will be replaced by another. All this makes it even harder for teams to dominate for long periods.

As for England, we did reach the second week (the group stages lasted more than a week), but I accept that England are shit. However, that hardly means that I can't have any knowledge on football, it simply means that England have a long history of making completely awful managerial appointments (ironically, when I was staunchly against the current manager being appointed, the one I wanted was the one currently managing the USA, kinda feeling vindicated on that one).

That's where population comes in. Oh and America is just isolationist, we don't play the worlds sports not because we can win at em (Olympics anyone) but rather because we prefer our own sports, always have. Me I like F1 racing and could give a fuck about Nascar most Americans have never seen an F1 race. Even when we had World Champion F1 drivers Americans didn't watch F1.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-07-2014, 09:02 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
(02-07-2014 08:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That's where population comes in. Oh and America is just isolationist, we don't play the worlds sports not because we can win at em (Olympics anyone) but rather because we prefer our own sports, always have. Me I like F1 racing and could give a fuck about Nascar most Americans have never seen an F1 race. Even when we had World Champion F1 drivers Americans didn't watch F1.

The Olympics are more about who can produce the newest drugs more than anything else. Plus, they are far more constant than football, approaches and playing styles differ widely from one decade to the next in football, athletics vary far less than that (look at Russia, plenty of Olympic success that they've never replicated in football).

And the F1/Nascar thing again proves my point. F1 isn't dominated by Americans, therefore they look for an alternative that can be.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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02-07-2014, 09:24 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
(02-07-2014 09:02 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 08:40 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That's where population comes in. Oh and America is just isolationist, we don't play the worlds sports not because we can win at em (Olympics anyone) but rather because we prefer our own sports, always have. Me I like F1 racing and could give a fuck about Nascar most Americans have never seen an F1 race. Even when we had World Champion F1 drivers Americans didn't watch F1.

The Olympics are more about who can produce the newest drugs more than anything else. Plus, they are far more constant than football, approaches and playing styles differ widely from one decade to the next in football, athletics vary far less than that (look at Russia, plenty of Olympic success that they've never replicated in football).

And the F1/Nascar thing again proves my point. F1 isn't dominated by Americans, therefore they look for an alternative that can be.

Except when it was dominated by Americans. No you are cherry picking your points and ignoring anything to the contrary. Really the Olympics are all about drugs when they have the most stringent testing in the world? Besides it is the consistency of American success on an international stage that I am talking about. Lets face it if the US Men's National team had the talent pool of the NFL and the money we'd be a contender for the cup every time. As it is we are better than most of the world in a sport we don't even play. Kind of wrecks your argument having the US advance to the round of 16.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-07-2014, 09:50 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
(02-07-2014 09:24 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Except when it was dominated by Americans. No you are cherry picking your points and ignoring anything to the contrary. Really the Olympics are all about drugs when they have the most stringent testing in the world? Besides it is the consistency of American success on an international stage that I am talking about. Lets face it if the US Men's National team had the talent pool of the NFL and the money we'd be a contender for the cup every time. As it is we are better than most of the world in a sport we don't even play. Kind of wrecks your argument having the US advance to the round of 16.

Not really, given that no single team has ever managed to "dominate" football (Brazil have had by far more success than any other team but have still won only five World Cups even though they've been held every four years since 1930) I think it's safe to say that America wouldn't suddenly be the team to change all that and dominate the rest. They might be one of the stronger teams but that's all they (and pretty much every country) can realistically achieve.

Oh, and Olympic drug testing would be great if new drugs weren't literally being constantly developed.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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02-07-2014, 09:53 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
(02-07-2014 09:50 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(02-07-2014 09:24 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Except when it was dominated by Americans. No you are cherry picking your points and ignoring anything to the contrary. Really the Olympics are all about drugs when they have the most stringent testing in the world? Besides it is the consistency of American success on an international stage that I am talking about. Lets face it if the US Men's National team had the talent pool of the NFL and the money we'd be a contender for the cup every time. As it is we are better than most of the world in a sport we don't even play. Kind of wrecks your argument having the US advance to the round of 16.

Not really, given that no single team has ever managed to "dominate" football (Brazil have had by far more success than any other team but have still won only five World Cups even though they've been held every four years since 1930) I think it's safe to say that America wouldn't suddenly be the team to change all that and dominate the rest. They might be one of the stronger teams but that's all they (and pretty much every country) can realistically achieve.

Oh, and Olympic drug testing would be great if new drugs weren't literally being constantly developed.

So it would be like the Olympics, disappointing unless we won. Also if drugs were the only reason anyone won in the Olympics why doesn't England ever win?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-07-2014, 10:00 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
(02-07-2014 09:53 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So it would be like the Olympics, disappointing unless we won. Also if drugs were the only reason anyone won in the Olympics why doesn't England ever win?

I'm not saying they're the only reason, just that are definitely a factor.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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02-07-2014, 10:16 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
Guys. No need to bicker about it. I just explained the whole thing.

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02-07-2014, 10:22 PM
RE: World Cup Predictions
American football is for fat boys. Just saying.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-07-2014, 03:57 AM
RE: World Cup Predictions
@Hughsie & @Revenant

Ye i agree with Hughsie on a couple of points there.... Klinsmann would be the best choice for England manager - no doubt

But also soccer is a game of immense tactical importance and is constantly evolving. This summer we've seen the emergence of a new kind of formation tackle the existing one which currently dominates club football in Europe - the 5-3-2 and 5-4-1 teams are showing how effective it can be against a 4-3-3 (a.k.a. 4231 Denmark)

There's a book I'm reading called Inverting The Pyramid which goes into spectacular detail about the history and evolution of football tactics.

Revenant let me clear firstly that the "British" only have a soccer team at the Olympics and even that is a relatively recent devlopment. You are referring to 'England' which is not my team as I am Welsh. The Welsh team never even qualifies for the European tounrament let alone the World Cup lol. And now we have Gareth Bale it's still unlikely to change any time soon.

But there are multitude of reasons why the England team are so poor but it has little to do with having quality players - which touches on my earlier point about the Spanish and Belgian sides not being able to win off the back of simply having a bunch of good individual players.

The English players are mostly millionaires (Rooney earns 300k a week - 150k after tax) and they are already at the top of their game in Club Football so the added work and pressure of international competition isn't anywhere near as alluring to them as playing in the Premier League and Champions League. They also have no need to make lots of fame and glory in order to fund their families and move them into a mansion somewhere and away from the poverty line, like many nations' players do.
There's also a distinct lack of patriotism in England compared to the USA.

The England team won one World Cup in 1966 but truth be told they are a long way away from being able to do that again. The domestic Football Assosciation is currently planning changes to our league systems to aid the development of young English players and so that may help a little in the long run but I just don't see England doing very well for a long time.

But this summer one of two main reasons you could point to the USA doing better in the tournament is that England were in a much tougher group and also that there's never much pressure on the underdogs to succeed whereas England are overencumbered with enormous pressure during every tournament by the British media.

But you are right the USA had a good showing this year and they should be grateful to have an excellent coach who understand not just football but your country also (I believe he is a nationalised citizen now after having lived in the US for so long, and he even sounds American when he speaks lol).

So full kudos to the USA for making it out of the group and their huge supporter turnout in Brazil. I honestly do want to see soccer take off in a big way in the US but the first, most important step is to begin respecting it as an incredibly intellectual sport with players of remarkable skill and athletic prowess and most of all to disassosciate it with young girls playing in schools.

Play FIFA or better yet, Football Manager - take an interest etc... etc... and one day the US could potentially be a real force to be reckoned with.

But like Hughsie and myself have said, don't expect to be lifting the trophy itself, even at that point. You can't succeed at soccer at that level if only a World Cup winners trophy would satisfy you.

Smile

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