World Goverment
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12-02-2012, 11:12 AM
RE: World Goverment
Well, as long as there are physical necessities there will technically always be borders. A full on cyber world would require the removal of physical selves. We currently aren't moving towards downloading ourselves into computers. There will always be a person somewhere in need of physical help.

An interesting idea on a society run by computers was introduced in a Japanese story called fractale.
http://www.animeultima.tv/watch/fractale...ed-online/
I'm a garage enthusiast I say media should be shared in any way possible that's how it gets to the people who want to purchase it.

This story of course is about how the technological breakthru was a mistake and that lives are better lived in reality, but they had a very interesting look at the idea of virtual worlds. In this story people no longer own homes and families generally don't exist. People live in motor homes travelling to wherever they like, and if they have children leave robots that they can log into to visit and discuss things. Relationships are generally not long lasting because in this world the freedom of movement is key. If two people want to be in different places they split up. It's a very interesting story and as a plus for us, the virtual society is built as a papalcy. The fight is against a computerized religious control.

The ideas of this story are very interesting though, in thinking of how far people will focus on the internet. But, a reasonable blend of technology and reality would of course be much better understood. If the internet community began inhabiting itself and populating areas, then theoretically it would control many parts of the world. In a world governed under the idea of free information I would see it being quite likely that we would have the ability to choose to live wherever we wish. Communities would be formed by interest groups within the parts of the world occupied by the internet. We would have furry camps, anime villages, little areas for different fields of interest and ideas. In this way we would form many small and tight nit communities.

In the sense of security I don't see any real fear. On a kittenplay site I was a moderator of we were thinking of buying a small town and creating a fully cat habitat. Within the confines of our forum we had doctors, carpenters, police. Every sort of job had people experienced in it to help with the framework. In this way I see that each community would end up with people perfectly willing to take the different jobs required for the physical necessities. How do you contact the police now? You make a phone call. Well how about the ability to either e-mail your police officer or send out a request to a forum with someone nearby responding? I could see an integrated society working.

The internet has spawned a huge growth in ideas as people of cutting edge fields discuss with eachother and design new concepts through international teams. I do not fear a stagnation of change within a community which bases it's information sharing and securities through the internet. Yes cyber terrorism would be an interesting and difficult problem, but I could see it being kept down.

What better way to foster the new generation of intellectuals than a community built upon the ideas of spreading knowledge?
http://www.khanacademy.org/
Thanks to the internet there is proof that if given the ability people are willing to disregard currency. And if it's found necessary I bet the interlocking communities of the internet could decide on a structured sytem which gets this right.
There will still be information that is withheld and some blackout areas. There will still be crimes, but the first question you have to ask of a virtual society is if it can reach the level of stability the current society can. I'm not sure it could do exceptionally better at policing and removing atrocities, but it would be much more likely to not cover them up. I could definitely see an internet driven community being as functional or even more functional than our current society.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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12-02-2012, 11:20 AM
RE: World Goverment
Quote:DLJ:
So, I was wondering how that could work in a borderless, atheist/adeist cyber-world.

I don't think it can. It does promote greater understanding and faster information sharing that any previous medium; it does transcend local constraints... it's also an unprecedented source of misinformation and dysunderstanding.
Cyberspace is quite different from the walking world. People are more equal in there than out here - though monied virtual entities, such as religious propagandists, spy agencies and commercial marketing organs have a disproportionately large presence. The same militant and radical modes of thought exist in cyberspace as in the walking world - only less inhibited in expression due to anonymity - the same feuds are carried from one format to another, and are no more amenable to intervention there than here - maybe less.
Regulation of cyberspace by governments and others has been attempted, will be attempted, and will continue to fail, but consensus will also continue elusive.
And, of course, the whole shebang is dependent on uninterrupted electricity supply and co-ordinated technologies. Come economic/ energy breakdown, for whatever reason, it disappears like a chimera.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
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12-02-2012, 11:37 AM
RE: World Goverment
Lilith and Peterkin, Thanks. Much food for thought.
And you reminded me of the IT Crowd when Moss reported a fire via email. :-)
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12-02-2012, 11:41 AM
RE: World Goverment
I agree wholly Peterkin just discussing what others have discussed, and the fact that as small communities things can be handled. My main statement with my long description in reply to DLJ's request is that I don't really see it being worse. Real or virtual it's the same people. It all depends on who wants what. I guarantee you though, that any sort of tyrant would have no chance against cyber revolutionaries. if there is one thing that would definitely exist it would be a large collective of people intent on preventing any large clusters of power.

My discussion of communities has to do with the instability of the electronic devices. If the entirety of this forum all lived on a small island and all the sudden lost power we would be fine. We have people who are skilled in all sorts of things. Why Stark alone could handle most of the food planning.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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14-02-2012, 12:08 AM
RE: World Goverment
(11-02-2012 03:37 PM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  I've always had this thought about a united world, 1 goverment body for the world and
no more borders or nationalism or tolerance for dictators.

i haven't looked much into this idea in terms of research, but while i do my homework
id like to know what you all think about this? how does the concept of an entire secular democratic world nation without borders or barriers, with shared resources and collaboration go with you?

and also im pretty sure that this cant be accomplished while religion or other outdated ideologies are still in the picture

What do you guys think? arent we all just citizens of the world?





I would like to imagine a world we could share. Unfortunately, I believe the only way the world would ever be ruled by a single government would be because of an apocalyptic scenario that would end in the murder of all others who had ideological differences and could possibly include physical differences as well.

I believe the U.N. is trying to accomplish this but I believe religion and politics will remain the largest walls that will continue to separate us.

If the world could somehow accomplish a secular government that benefited all people, I would believe it to be mankind's greatest achievement. Cooperating as one would be one of the largest steps forward in creating peace among the world. Having people within government who choose laws and actions based on the benefit of humans, rather than denying a law because of a belief, would already be much more beneficial to mankind.

I believe we are Humans first and everything else second. You are a Human before you are an American. You are a Human before you are a Christian. You are Human before you are a Republican. I believe we need to decide that we are all Humans first. When people can remember that their fellow humans(Despite views, opinions and ideas) are still humans. They will treat them with respect rather than the inequality that is blatantly everywhere. People demonize one another and you can see an example with how the religious community views us. They don't believe us to be the same. They believe they are in an exclusive club and you have to have the same mindset or your immediately criticized and attacked. We aren't the same. To them, we aren't human.

All governments have their flaws. One of their greatest is their failure to cooperate with their people and remember they are human.

(Sorry about bringing this back from the dead. Multiple things have kept me from posting so sorry for the inconvenience but I do want to reply.)

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

It has been a long time. How have you been?
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14-02-2012, 12:34 AM
RE: World Goverment
(14-02-2012 12:08 AM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  I believe we are Humans first and everything else second. You are a Human before you are an American. You are a Human before you are a Christian. You are Human before you are a Republican. I believe we need to decide that we are all Humans first.

How's this for a thought.... We are not humans first, we are biological life-forms first, then mammals, then humans, then Americans (although I'm not), then Republicans etc.
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14-02-2012, 11:54 AM
 
RE: World Government
(11-02-2012 04:21 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  This was the huge fear of the brand of fundies I grew up around. The world will one day be united by the Head Antichrist of all antichrists and he will make everyone take the mark of the Beast and worship him. If they don't, it's off with their heads!

I was subjected to this abuse around age 12. Start watching around minute 6:30 and you'll have an understanding of why I have a deeply ingrained fear of a One World Government.




When i was still a believer, a buddy of mine and i would go to these Hotel Convention rooms where these 'End times' folks would show up and have a convention of END TIMES! It began, ended and was punctuated WITH ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!!!

That was the BIG monster under our collective beds.
They'd use scary phrases like "New World Order", "Illuminati", "Secret Currency" and a whole host of other stuff.
One meeting had the TOP Chaplin from Operation Desert Storm telling us (i shit you NOT) to sell our cars and buy Diesel trucks, as the "New COPS" had zappers that could zap our cars driven by electronic fuel injectors. He was the top Chaplin for that freaking war, boasting of turning portable crappers into makeshift Baptisteries (mini pools for baptism). He warned of all the supposed friendly new "Dept of Transportation" cameras....and stated that the public is told they are there to keep an eye on traffic, but are really there to watch us.
He insisted we quit relying on Credit Cards as its yet another tracking device.
Also insisting that we turn off cable TV as its a TWO way device. It not only can transmit, but can receive video input (much like a speaker can be turned into a microphone...which IS true). He stated that the cable boxes were ways for the government to spy on us to see what families were having bible devotion time and see who was praying.....all preparing for the BIG BIG roundup of Christians during the revelation events.

He had photo's he'd project that showed of all these new, yet empty, mass detention centers.

They ALL spoke of how we should NOT trust FEMA, as its presented as a Federal program to help us..buts it has much more sinister plans afoot.
Talk of how the government has SOLD parts of land in Tennessee to other governments and those governments are conducting military exercises! Supposedly Russia was conducting submarine training missions off our coasts and the government knew, but is staying silent. And ALL those GRID POWER outages were mere training scenarios getting ready for the big day.

At the time all this seemed real and very immediate. Its the same methods used by Glenn Beck and Alex Jones today. I now call it the "Chicken Little / Sky is Falling" method. I look back now at the madness that me and many others bought into. Sadly its still around today.

As stated earlier in this thread, Roddenberry showed us how it could work in Star Trek. EARTH was of one mind and voice and seemingly not bothered with turf and religious wars. Its a great dream, but will never happen as long as we have "Cavemen with Religion" running around on this earth.


D
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14-02-2012, 12:09 PM
RE: World Government
(14-02-2012 11:54 AM)Denicio Wrote:  Sadly its still around today.

If so, please reserve me a spot in the queue for the guillotine... very near the front. I'll be happy to lead by example.

In your land of the free and home of the brave (btw, when I was really little, I thought that brave meant red injun... that was a mindfuck) there is a litigation culture. What kind of noise would it make if all the kids scarred by this BS sued their abusers?
Just a thought.
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14-02-2012, 12:11 PM
 
RE: World Government
(14-02-2012 12:09 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(14-02-2012 11:54 AM)Denicio Wrote:  Sadly its still around today.

If so, please reserve me a spot in the queue for the guillotine... very near the front. I'll be happy to lead by example.

In your land of the free and home of the brave (btw, when I was really little, I thought that brave meant red injun... that was a mindfuck) there is a litigation culture. What kind of noise would it make if all the kids scarred by this BS sued their abusers?
Just a thought.

Well, the line is only for Christians that wont take the mark of the beast.

D
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14-02-2012, 12:16 PM
RE: World Goverment
Terrible idea. People around the world are too different culturally. It doesn't make sense to attempt to satisfy everyone with the same type of government. Just look at us. We share very similar interest and often the same point of view and most of us have vastly different ideas about what type of government we should have.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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