World War II.
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08-06-2016, 02:11 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2016 02:30 AM by Banjo.)
RE: World War II.
Grrrr! Why won't this post????? AngryAngryAngry

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08-06-2016, 02:22 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2016 02:28 AM by Banjo.)
RE: World War II.
Grrrr!

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08-06-2016, 03:14 AM
RE: World War II.
Otto Von Bismarck's Reinsurance Treaty.

I really don't think you can separate the continuity's impact.

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08-06-2016, 03:16 AM
RE: World War II.
It was WW1, but not in the way most people mean. The Great War was about the dominance of one set of powers over the other for resources being found across the world, during and prior to the 19th century, beginning with the first explorers who set out to see the whole globe and place European claims from Australia to Africa to Peru. When the economy squeezed, during the Great Depression, the fire was sparked.

We (the British, the Dutch, and the Americans, to a lesser degree before the war) had claims on the oil in the South Pacific, which we denied to Japan except in strangulation amounts. They needed the resource to try to build their empire. Japan, in their attempt to unify the Southeast Asian economic sphere of influence (under their empire's leadership, of course), hoped they could capture the resources of the region away from the distracted European powers. The reason Yamamoto said he could run roughshod over the US Navy for six months to a year, and gave an outside maximum of 18 months, he was warning that the expansion needed to be a fait accompli and an armistice signed by 1943, or Japan would lose the naval war, and with it the empire.

Germany felt like they were the height of culture (nearly French, in their arrogance!), and resented being held under thumb (and debt) after the war, held down by their inferiors, and resented being neutered as a military power just because they fought a war. They needed to show their might, to steal their breathing room. I think the war is in large part a lesson in what could have been accomplished with mercy rather than vengeance.

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08-06-2016, 04:44 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2016 04:50 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: World War II.
Versailes Treaty was significant factor in leading to WW II. It was too harsh considering that allies lost the will to enforce it. Such lack of will allowed Hitler to gain popularity by overturning it's rulings. Popularity of nationalism also could be at least in part tied to treaty. And it was nationalism** that allowed Hitler to rise.

As for most decisive battle I would say that it was first battle with Poland army as that meant that Hitler isn't fighting a war he wanted*. More conventionaly I would choose Dunkirk and Reich failure to destroy English army.


As for my question - was Shoah possible and likely without Hitler? I thinkt that while possibility would exist without Hitler lead there would be no Holocaust. History isn't predetermined and wrong man in wrong place can do much damage.
*If he really wanted Poles as allies against Ussr.

**Also machinations of elites. One should remember that Hitler was cooopted to power by those who wanted to use and control him.

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08-06-2016, 05:31 AM
RE: World War II.
The morning some joker pissed in Adolph's schnitzel............


He just came unglued....

....
"Das Muthafucka!!! INVADE POLAND!!!!"


Wink

.......................................

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08-06-2016, 05:53 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2016 07:34 AM by Silly Deity.)
RE: World War II.
I agree with many others that the Versailles Treaty sowed the seeds of WW2s destruction. It gave rise to extreme nationalism and the rise of totalitarianism in Germany under Hitler who viewed the appeasement of Britain and France as weakness and therefore an opportunity to reverse the calamities of WW1 that had befallen Germany.

In the Pacific the rise of Japanese militarism and extreme nationalism parallels the situation in Europe (although Japan was on the winning side in WW1). The militarists viewed China's weakness and the loosening grip of the British, French and Dutch on their east Asian possessions as an opportunity to expand and dominate.

The most decisive battles?

Battle of Britain - the defeat of the Luftwaffe and the survival of Britain to continue to fight meant that there was not going to be any accommodation by Briton and its Commonwealth allies for Hitler, his war aims and his expanded Reich.

Battle of Stalingrad - German forces never again had the initiative in the East and Hitler had to withdraw a vast military force from the West to replace his losses.

Battle of Midway - saw the destruction of a significant portion of Japan's naval might and meant that the USA obtained increasing dominance in the Pacific.

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08-06-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: World War II.
(07-06-2016 05:54 PM)Banjo Wrote:  What do you believe was the most important event that began WWII, and why?

The signing of the Treaty of Versailles. It's draconian demands crippled the already powerless Weimar Republic and laid the groundwork of civil discontent that allowed fanatics to rise to positions of power.

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08-06-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: World War II.
(08-06-2016 05:53 AM)Silly Deity Wrote:  Battle of Midway - saw the destruction of a significant portion of Japan's naval might and meant that the USA obtained increasing dominance in the Pacific.

"If the Japanese had won at Midway they would have still lost the war.

If the Americans had lost at Midway they would have still won the war. "
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08-06-2016, 09:16 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2016 09:21 AM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: World War II.
(07-06-2016 09:54 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Another good question: most decisive battle of that war? I've got my own opinion -- there are two, not one -- but a ore interested in hearing others' first.

IMO, the failure of the Blitz to crush England. I know that some offer up Stalingrad as the most decisive battle and I think that a case can be made for that. However, had the Blitz succeeded, Hitler could have shifted more troops and materiel to the East. Had England fallen, the entire air campaign that damaged Germany's ability to supply arms could not have succeeded like it did, thereby leaving much of the industrial arm of the Reich intact. Since the Blitz failed, he had to keep a large force in Western Europe simply because he knew that England was going to play a role eventually. Not saying this would have resulted in a win at Stalingrad, but with a much stronger Luftwaffe (since England wasn't shooting them down anymore), fresh troops from Western Europe, coupled with the continued supply of materiel from an unmolested industrial sector, that battle would have been even more difficult to win.
Just my thoughts.


In regards to the Versailles Treaty, I think that was one of the worst documents in human history. Nearly every single problem that came out of the 20th century can be traced to it in some way. It shaped the entire geopolitical future of SE Asia, the Middle East, North America, and Europe which has lead to so much death and destruction.

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