World War II.
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11-06-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: World War II.
(07-06-2016 05:54 PM)Banjo Wrote:  <snip>
What do you believe was the most important event that began WWII, and why?

I'm not an expert but I think each event is important.
Before the beginning of this conflict they were wars in Pacific with the Empire of Japan (Nowadays territories of this former state are situated in Republic of China more known under the name of Taiwan , State of Japan , Democratic People's Republic of Korea called North Korea by the majority of People and Republic of Korea) against others states.
It is essential to know it. How understand this event called "attack on Pearl Harbor" in 7th december 1941 if we ignore that ?

I cited an event that happened in Pacific front to explain why I think that each event is important. Without wars in pacific before WWII. Attack on Pearl Harbor didn't happened and USA wouldn't take part to this war.

Each events are tied to others directly or indirectly.
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11-06-2016, 12:10 PM
RE: World War II.
(11-06-2016 11:31 AM)viocjit Wrote:  I cited an event that happened in Pacific front to explain why I think that each event is important. Without wars in pacific before WWII. Attack on Pearl Harbor didn't happened and USA wouldn't take part to this war.

Fundamentally incorrect. The US was trying to avoid a war with Japan. The Americans and British had decided in March, 1941, that the policy would be "Germany First". FDR wanted to help the British against Germany and a war in the Pacific would be a distraction from that.
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11-06-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: World War II.
Yes. Pearl Harbor was a distraction for Roosevelt. Luckily for him Hitler bailed him out because on 12-8-41 you would have been hard pressed to find an American who gave a flying fuck about Germany.

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11-06-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: World War II.
(11-06-2016 01:41 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  Yes. Pearl Harbor was a distraction for Roosevelt. Luckily for him Hitler bailed him out because on 12-8-41 you would have been hard pressed to find an American who gave a flying fuck about Germany.

Gallup Polls:

Interviewing Date 10/9-14/41

Survey #250-K Question #3

Which of these two things do you think is the more important — that this country keep out of war, or that Germany be defeated?

Keep out of war..................... 32%

Defeat Germany..................... 68
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11-06-2016, 08:19 PM
RE: World War II.
Ask the question on December 8, 1941.

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14-06-2016, 11:12 AM
RE: World War II.
I'll be kind and say you were "speaking off the cuff."

DECEMBER 23

THREAT TO AMERICA'S FUTURE

Interviewing Date 12/12-17/41

Survey #255 Question #6

Which country is the greater threat to America's future — Germany or Japan?

Germany........................... 64%

Japan.............................. 15

Equal threats........................ 15

No opinion......................... 6
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01-07-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: World War II.
(10-06-2016 04:41 AM)Einharjar Wrote:  Sociologically, WW1 saw the rise of a stronger capitalist system that only fueled the civil divide between rich and poor to such a state that during the reconstruction era, many different countries all saw fascist like leaders rise up on the waves of the raging people who'd been beaten down by the ventures we all see as a poison today.
Woodrow Wilson really succeeded in making sure America's fate in future WW2 was sealed with such blunders as the Federal Reserve, clinging to a presidency when detrimentally ill at a time when the League of Nations was already showing weakness by 1920-1921 and by hastily demobilizing the US armed forced post WW1 that saw something of the factor of 4 million troops sent up with piss poor pay and savings, a bursting land market bubble and the general signs of an impending economic shut down due to rising inflation. All factors showing the constant drift between the low and upper class divide like we see today.
It's a something of a shock that America itself did not become an embroiled fascist nation, too.

The fact that FDR was being strong armed by a coalition of Socialist, Communist and Labor Union movements in response to the depression was likely what kept the USA from falling into the same zealot fundamentalist fascist regime that Germany, Italy, Japan and others did. If it had been any other leader that was a channel for the anger expressed by the working class at that time; any individual who saw that they could use this emotional upheaval to rationalize some massive fascist take over? The USA could've been another regime of tyranny as well.

The things that triggered WW1 and WW2 are still in existence today and you can see the same build ups happening again. A desperate, massive, lower class oppressed heavily by the elite upper class. This class warfare is a bed rock in which - when left to scab and infect; fascist like leaders can rise up and whip up the emotional frenzy of the oppressed for their own gain. I mean, many people might not realize just how much boths sides wanted to keep warring; even post WW2. Churchill was fine with waging WW3 at the WW2s close.

The Treaties and the weakness of the League be damned; WW2 would've likely of happened with or without these entities. Hitler expressed it quite clearly himself in his book; Mein Kampf, it was a matter of revolution. It was a matter of taking back what was theirs. He truly saw the Jews as the class that was oppressing the commonwealth of a nation and all nations and wanted to represent the challenging underclass to topple them. This is why we've got to watch ourselves now, for this election itself is showing the signs of extreme discontent among the population that, if left unchecked, could easily bring to power a leader as vile as Hitler himself.

So in my personal opinion from everything I've read on my spare time - what lead to WW2? Ultimately - the Social Economic divide caused by oppressive Capitalism is what lead to it. With out that; you'd have no working class that would've supported Hitler or any fascist that rose during that time.

You may be on to something. I think there is a reason Nazi Germany was able to obtain financing and the right technologies and why it attacked the Soviet Union while technically being at war with Great Britain (which declared war on Germany after Poland was invaded in 1939).
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01-07-2016, 12:57 PM
RE: World War II.
(01-07-2016 11:57 AM)SuperBigV Wrote:  I think there is a reason Nazi Germany was able to obtain financing and the right technologies


There is certainly a reason for Nazis "obtaining" finances, namely conquest and Arianisation of economy. As for right technologies Reich own people and Czechoslovakia were responsible for that.

On the subject of economy I reccomend Gotz Aly "Hitler's Beneficiaries".

Quote: and why it attacked the Soviet Union while technically being at war with Great Britain (which declared war on Germany after Poland was invaded in 1939).

Reason for attacking SU had much to do with ideology. Newest take on this was in "Ostkrieg" by Stephen Fritz.



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01-07-2016, 01:09 PM
RE: World War II.
(01-07-2016 12:57 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(01-07-2016 11:57 AM)SuperBigV Wrote:  I think there is a reason Nazi Germany was able to obtain financing and the right technologies


There is certainly a reason for Nazis "obtaining" finances, namely conquest and Arianisation of economy. As for right technologies Reich own people and Czechoslovakia were responsible for that.

On the subject of economy I reccomend Gotz Aly "Hitler's Beneficiaries".

Just imagine where they would have been without the brain drain and forced remilitarisation!

The gear-up for Barbarossa was pretty much just based on looting Czechoslovakia, France, and Netherlands dry.

(01-07-2016 12:57 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
Quote: and why it attacked the Soviet Union while technically being at war with Great Britain (which declared war on Germany after Poland was invaded in 1939).

Reason for attacking SU had much to do with ideology. Newest take on this was in "Ostkrieg" by Stephen Fritz.

Entirely ideological.

Sane leadership would never have invaded - but then, they wouldn't have started any war period. 'Sane' and 'Nazi' are definitionally opposed.

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01-07-2016, 01:30 PM
RE: World War II.
(01-07-2016 01:09 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Just imagine where they would have been without the brain drain and forced remilitarisation!


In better situation I suppose.

Quote: The gear-up for Barbarossa was pretty much just based on looting Czechoslovakia, France, and Netherlands dry.

Without relevant books I can't comment on this.

Quote: Entirely ideological.


Strategic calculation also played a role in this.

Quote: Sane leadership would never have invaded - but then, they wouldn't have started any war period. 'Sane' and 'Nazi' are definitionally opposed.

Nazis were as sane as Soviets. Sanity and insanity is matter of interpretation, just look for GULag, which is either product of paranoid dictator or rational attempt to colonize remote regions pf the country.



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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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