World War III
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-07-2014, 05:36 PM
World War III
(22-07-2014 05:27 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(22-07-2014 05:22 PM)cjlr Wrote:  They said that in 1914, too.

Just sayin'.

Read 'The War That Ended Peace' by Margaret MacMillan to look at this in more depth...

It would appear that even my facetiousness can bear fruit! Many thanks!

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-07-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: World War III
(22-07-2014 05:33 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-07-2014 05:22 PM)cjlr Wrote:  They said that in 1914, too.

Just sayin'.

Do you think the political landscape is at all similar to the early 20th century?

No. The commonalities are those found throughout history, and the differences are vast. What with a single alliance controlling a vast majority of the world's military power and all.

That isn't the point of that comment; wars are not economic, they are political.

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-07-2014, 06:01 PM
RE: World War III
(22-07-2014 05:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-07-2014 05:33 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Do you think the political landscape is at all similar to the early 20th century?

No. The commonalities are those found throughout history, and the differences are vast. What with a single alliance controlling a vast majority of the world's military power and all.

That isn't the point of that comment; wars are not economic, they are political.

I would disagree. I can point to several examples such as the Span-Am war and the first Gulf war. In fact I would hazard that more wars have been fought for economic reasons than for political ones.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
22-07-2014, 06:02 PM
RE: World War III
(22-07-2014 05:27 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(22-07-2014 05:22 PM)cjlr Wrote:  They said that in 1914, too.

Just sayin'.

Read 'The War That Ended Peace' by Margaret MacMillan to look at this in more depth...

And it was precisely a hundred years ago that the July Crisis was about to see the blood-dimmed tide loosed, to steal from Yeats.

(fun fact: the Serbians were already extremely accommodating of the Austrian ultimatum - which may well have been a deliberate provocation by the hardliners in that court - and their prime minister held back in part because Serbia was due for elections come mid-August and he couldn't afford, electorally, to go the final abasing step towards conciliation; indeed, all the key nations involved were at least somewhat democratically accountable...)

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes cjlr's post
22-07-2014, 06:09 PM
RE: World War III
(22-07-2014 06:01 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I would disagree. I can point to several examples such as the Span-Am war and the first Gulf war. In fact I would hazard that more wars have been fought for economic reasons than for political ones.

Obviously politics has economic dimensions, but that's simply not an overriding factor.

The Spanish-American war was driven by baldfaced Imperialism; the idea of colonies was far more valuable than the colonies themselves ever were (for any of the western powers).

And while clearly Saddam wanted Kuwaiti oil among other things, he would never have moved in if he had expected to have to fight - a very political calculation, based on ambiguous American statements and positions in the aftermath of the Iran-Iraq war (itself started by the Iraqis to capitalise on Iran's political instability post-revolution...).

... this is my signature!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-07-2014, 06:27 PM
RE: World War III
(22-07-2014 06:09 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-07-2014 06:01 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I would disagree. I can point to several examples such as the Span-Am war and the first Gulf war. In fact I would hazard that more wars have been fought for economic reasons than for political ones.

Obviously politics has economic dimensions, but that's simply not an overriding factor.

The Spanish-American war was driven by baldfaced Imperialism; the idea of colonies was far more valuable than the colonies themselves ever were (for any of the western powers).

And while clearly Saddam wanted Kuwaiti oil among other things, he would never have moved in if he had expected to have to fight - a very political calculation, based on ambiguous American statements and positions in the aftermath of the Iran-Iraq war (itself started by the Iraqis to capitalise on Iran's political instability post-revolution...).

I do agree that the cost of a war is rarely enough to prevent one from happening, which was I believe what you meant with your original post. Economics however is much too broad a term to use in place of cost.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
22-07-2014, 06:41 PM
RE: World War III
Of course not.
World economies are too intertwined. It's not profitable to wage war any more.
Money is an enormous incentive and if you can gain more by trading with your enemies where as war would decrease your wealth, than you're gonna trade.

(22-07-2014 05:25 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Let's say it did happen. What country would be safe? Canada? Japan? The Netherlands?

New Zealand.
We're away from anyone (as opposed to Netherlands, Scandinavia and Switzerland whom are in the EU.), we're not as weak as really small island nations such as Fiji or Tonga and we stay the fuck out of military conflicts only committing troops to cleanup and rebuild (as opposed to Australia who likes to brown nose the US and throws troops their way).

(22-07-2014 06:01 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-07-2014 05:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  No. The commonalities are those found throughout history, and the differences are vast. What with a single alliance controlling a vast majority of the world's military power and all.

That isn't the point of that comment; wars are not economic, they are political.

I would disagree. I can point to several examples such as the Span-Am war and the first Gulf war. In fact I would hazard that more wars have been fought for economic reasons than for political ones.

I think the vast majority of wars are for economic reasons too. Political reasons are just used to justify it. Every war I can think of off the top of my head had a huge economic motivator behind it. Except purhaps the American Civil War, but I admittedly don't know much about the American Civil War. Oh and maybe the Vietnam War too, I think that that was purely about stopping communism (well, the USSR gaining allies).

[Image: oscar.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
22-07-2014, 07:25 PM
RE: World War III
Muffs is right, the prevailing reason for wars ifs economics. Politics plays a role, but that role is generally around money, resources, land, etc. And, for the record, the American Civil War was absolutely about economics. The Southern economy was dependant on slave labor. The that the institution drove the south to succession and war. Viet Nam is a weird study and probably one off the few truly ideological wars. That is probably why it was such an ongoing cluster fuck too.

Muffs is also right about our economies being so intertwined another large scale war is unlikely. One of the advantages of our global economy is the kind of nationalism that lead to the two major conflicts of the last century unlikely due to the economic impacts to all involved. Unfortunately, that also makes it difficult to punish an agitator like Russia. You can only push them so hard, but sanctions could lead to them limiting oil and gas to Europe, which kills their economy.

You won't see another World War. What you probably will see is Putin's thugs getting away with shooting down a civilian airliner.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-07-2014, 02:27 AM
RE: World War III
Quote:What you probably will see is Putin's thugs getting away with shooting down a civilian airliner.

This.
People die every day, nobody cares. Yes it is a tragedy, yes it's horrible BUT nobody cares. Leaders will condemn it (as they have) because it's in their job description to do so. Leaders condemn major tragedies and events all the time. It doesn't mean anything will come of it.

295 lives are not worth suffering economically by imposing serious sanctions on Russia to force them to stop training Ukrainian rebels.
And 295 people sure as shit aren't worth a war over.

There was literally more tension in the air when Crimea split from Ukraine and joined Russia and those that died in that were military personal and Ukrainians (as opposed to westerners such as Dutch). Yet the west put up more of stink over that.
Why? because it was economically bad for the west. It's bad if the Crimea joins Russia because it gives Russia naval bases in the Black Sea and Russia doesn't brown nose Europe and America and has it's little thing going on with China and shit and butt-hurtness over losing the Cold War.

People complain I'm too fixated on money but money really is what makes the world go round. Without money the world would literally stop spinning and we'd all go flying off the edge into space and boil to death. That's scientific fact, you can quote me on that.

[Image: oscar.png]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
23-07-2014, 04:47 AM
RE: World War III
We would boil in space? Isn't space cold?

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes BnW's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: