World War III
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23-07-2014, 11:42 AM
RE: World War III
(23-07-2014 11:29 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(23-07-2014 11:05 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  And joining Hamas is probably the most short sighted and ultimately self defeating thing the palestinians could do. It gives total justification for Israel to basically do as they please since the other side is now no longer a coherent government just what amounts to a terrorist organization given facile authority.

But they have reasons for doing so. From their perspective they are good reasons.

When Israeli responses do nothing but affirm those reasons, there does not seem to be much prospect for improvement.

Well lack of long term thinking is what is probably going to destroy our species.


(23-07-2014 11:29 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(23-07-2014 11:05 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Had they stuck with the PLO (as bad as they were over the years) we would probably have a legitimate Palestine as a member nation of the UN by now.

I seriously doubt that. Not that being a "non-member state" for the last two years has accomplished anything.

Up to the point that Hamas came to power the public perception had begun to swing firmly to the palestinian side in the conflict. Israel looked like a bully and was being firmly pressed to give concessions. Now, not so much. Hamas has basically destroyed 20 years of bridge building that had gone on and has placed them in a worse situation than they were in 1973. The non-member state thing was a last gasp by the legitimate government to try and convince people that the Hamas approach is not the only way. Sadly it seems to have failed.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-07-2014, 11:52 AM
RE: World War III
I think there is always the possibility of WW3.

Anything could spark two + countries to go to war, and whilst I appreciate that the world is more "connected" now and that we live in "modern times", the people in the past could of said the same as they were living and experiencing exactly what we are now. That they were living in "modern times", that they were unshakable (with justifications given of that current system)

How long have modern humans been around? 200,000 years?

We have a history of killing each other throughout time, all for different reasons and justifications. I see how nothing has changed since 1914 except the landscape is different, different people are in power and we have evolved warfare to the point where we could basically wipe out a lot of life out in one intercontinental swoop... anytime.

It could be over anything or nothing, it always is Shy

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23-07-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: World War III
(23-07-2014 11:42 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Well lack of long term thinking is what is probably going to destroy our species.

On the bright side, it would be almost impossible to destroy everyone, no matter how much we fuck things up.

I mean, we've been down to four-digit population bottlenecks before...

(23-07-2014 11:42 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Up to the point that Hamas came to power the public perception had begun to swing firmly to the palestinian side in the conflict. Israel looked like a bully and was being firmly pressed to give concessions. Now, not so much. Hamas has basically destroyed 20 years of bridge building that had gone on and has placed them in a worse situation than they were in 1973. The non-member state thing was a last gasp by the legitimate government to try and convince people that the Hamas approach is not the only way. Sadly it seems to have failed.

Of course - very much so. The governments of the West Bank have continued to try to negotiate the whole time - and got nothing for their troubles but more settlements, more border controls, and more extraterritorial appropriation. And the West Bank has been by and large peaceful.

The Israeli hardliners love this. They can point to Hamas, shrug their shoulders, and carry on with business as usual, touting their high-mindedness and restraint. Conveniently notwithstanding that their own actions are what spawned them and perpetuate them.

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23-07-2014, 12:23 PM
RE: World War III
(23-07-2014 11:53 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(23-07-2014 11:42 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Up to the point that Hamas came to power the public perception had begun to swing firmly to the palestinian side in the conflict. Israel looked like a bully and was being firmly pressed to give concessions. Now, not so much. Hamas has basically destroyed 20 years of bridge building that had gone on and has placed them in a worse situation than they were in 1973. The non-member state thing was a last gasp by the legitimate government to try and convince people that the Hamas approach is not the only way. Sadly it seems to have failed.

Of course - very much so. The governments of the West Bank have continued to try to negotiate the whole time - and got nothing for their troubles but more settlements, more border controls, and more extraterritorial appropriation. And the West Bank has been by and large peaceful.

The Israeli hardliners love this. They can point to Hamas, shrug their shoulders, and carry on with business as usual, touting their high-mindedness and restraint. Conveniently notwithstanding that their own actions are what spawned them and perpetuate them.

Well it is always easier to go with the Pro-wrestling/comic book villain than the nuanced opponent who has both positive and negative points and would require a real effort to work with. It's why right wing radio has a strawman of President Obama that has nothing to do with the real person. The problem here being that Hamas might as well scream "Cobra!" every time they do anything, and that gives everyone an excuse to ignore the rational position of the west bank government.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-07-2014, 06:35 PM
RE: World War III
I'm with cjlr on this. Israel have gone way overboard. Their airstrikes are in response to missiles that their missile defense system shot down.
Last time I saw there was 1 Israeli death and over 500 Palestinians dead, mostly civilian. Of course Palestine is going to fight back (in the form of Hamas), the Jews did literally take over their country/homeland. They were just chillin and foreign powers, Jews, Uk, France, US, decided that Jews have claim on their land. What do you expect them to do? Wouldn't you pissed off too?

Israel drives the Palestinians to fight Israel and than complains when they do. What does Israel expect? The Palestinians to just curl over and give up their land? And than Israel uses Palestinian violence as an excuse to tighten their grip over Palestine yet it's Israel who drives them to violence.

I support Israel because I'm racist towards Muslims and I think having a pro-western country in the Middle East (like, a non-muslim one) benefits me personally. But I'm not ignorant to Israels wrong doings, I just don't care.

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23-07-2014, 10:18 PM
RE: World War III
Between Russia and NATO, there would be no guarantee of avoiding a nuclear exchange. Both sides are bristling with warheads... Many of which were designed and built for this exact scenario.

I doubt Russia would stand much of chance against NATO in conventional warfare... And I wouldn't put it past Putin to go nuclear when he finds himself losing on the battlefield.

To me, Putin comes across as being quite petty and childish... Afraid of losing face and appearing weak, the constant need to show off his personal strength and power through bizarre publicity stunts.

George W Bush said he found Putin to be obsessively competitive, even down to the size and strength of their dogs.

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23-07-2014, 10:52 PM
RE: World War III
Quote:even down to the size and strength of their

*holds breath*

Quote:dogs.

oh Sad anti-climatic much?

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23-07-2014, 11:05 PM
RE: World War III
(23-07-2014 10:52 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:even down to the size and strength of their

*holds breath*

Quote:dogs.

oh Sad anti-climatic much?

Well... I do think penis insecurity plays a big part in Putin's presidency.

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23-07-2014, 11:07 PM
RE: World War III
(23-07-2014 11:05 PM)Sam Wrote:  
(23-07-2014 10:52 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  *holds breath*


oh Sad anti-climatic much?

Well... I do think penis insecurity plays a big part in Putin's presidency.

Russians have had a national inferiority complex for centuries. Ever since Peter the Great tried to take his poor backwards country and bring it up to the then modern world Russians have always felt slighted and looked down upon by the west.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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23-07-2014, 11:16 PM
RE: World War III
(23-07-2014 11:07 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(23-07-2014 11:05 PM)Sam Wrote:  Well... I do think penis insecurity plays a big part in Putin's presidency.

Russians have had a national inferiority complex for centuries. Ever since Peter the Great tried to take his poor backwards country and bring it up to the then modern world Russians have always felt slighted and looked down upon by the west.

True... And part of that insecurity would be justified.

During the early years of the Cold War the West did seem to view the Soviets as being inferior. It's one reason why people were so shocked when Sputnik was launched.

Not to anything like the extent that the Nazis did, but there was this attitude from the West for a long time. Especially in regards to military technology.

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