Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
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08-08-2016, 05:50 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(06-08-2016 11:13 AM)BnW Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 10:56 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  If it is not true, then it is an even better reason to fully understand the down side to using them. It just proves my point.

Here's my point: you have absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about.

If the US uses nukes, then it's license for EVERY country that has them to use nukes. There are no longer rules. The whole purpose of nukes is their deterrent effect. The minute someone is no longer deterred, then no one is deterred.

That we have people who watch shop lifters who don't get this is not that big an issue. That someone who is running to be President of the fucking US not get this is horrifying.

The nukes are still a deterrent. Do you really think that if we tell our allies and even potential enemies that we are only launching one and by the way here is the destination, do you really think any of them would launch on us? I doubt it. The knowledge that if they did, we would start hitting them would be enough to stop them. I am convinced that at some point our enemies that are determined to bring sharia law to the world are going to have to witness the damage nukes can do first hand and I would rather it not be a nuke they sent to us.
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08-08-2016, 06:03 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(06-08-2016 01:33 PM)I Am Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 10:56 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  If it is not true, then it is an even better reason to fully understand the down side to using them. It just proves my point.

So if you're right, you're right, and if you're wrong you're even more right. Got it.

My point was that until you know otherwise everything should be on the table. This includes the use of nukes. I have watched videos about our use of them. I have a pretty good, although incomplete knowledge of the aftermath of their use 60 years ago. Unless you are knowledgeable about their current specs, you can't know if the downside has changed at all. I am pretty sure that they have a much bigger bang than they originally did and yes I also believe I heard less radiation. I do not have access to the info needed to make a decision like that. Anyone that might have the authority to use such a device should know everything there is about what it does and the after effects. I can see Clinton not giving enough of a shit to know and either using them because she feels like it or being too afraid to use them even if she had to. Just based on not having enough info. She is a lying flake.
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08-08-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-08-2016 05:50 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  The nukes are still a deterrent. Do you really think that if we tell our allies and even potential enemies that we are only launching one and by the way here is the destination, do you really think any of them would launch on us?

It's possible. But there is something more important - if USA decide to use such weapon once who can say that it won't be used it second time. With this one use all could go downhill and nukes could change from deterrent to ordinary if destructive and legitimate weapon of war.

(08-08-2016 05:50 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I doubt it. The knowledge that if they did, we would start hitting them would be enough to stop them.

The knowledge that you dared to use it once may spark preemptive attack in whatever country that will feel threatened.

(08-08-2016 05:50 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I am convinced that at some point our enemies that are determined to bring sharia law to the world are going to have to witness the damage nukes can do first hand and I would rather it not be a nuke they sent to us.

Being convinced of something does not make it true.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-08-2016, 08:32 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-08-2016 06:03 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 01:33 PM)I Am Wrote:  So if you're right, you're right, and if you're wrong you're even more right. Got it.

My point was that until you know otherwise everything should be on the table. This includes the use of nukes. I have watched videos about our use of them. I have a pretty good, although incomplete knowledge of the aftermath of their use 60 years ago. Unless you are knowledgeable about their current specs, you can't know if the downside has changed at all. I am pretty sure that they have a much bigger bang than they originally did and yes I also believe I heard less radiation. I do not have access to the info needed to make a decision like that. Anyone that might have the authority to use such a device should know everything there is about what it does and the after effects. I can see Clinton not giving enough of a shit to know and either using them because she feels like it or being too afraid to use them even if she had to. Just based on not having enough info. She is a lying flake.

I can't see that in her at all. Whatever her faults, and there are several, she is not cavalier or lazy. She is a detail-oriented policy wonk who carefully examines her options, her actions, and the risks involved in each potential outcome. I may disagree with more than a few of her choices, but not on the basis of her willful ignorance, acting on whim, or deciding from fear. I question her values and her principles, but not her dedication or courage.

Further, when I question Clinton's values and principles, it's because hers consistently and predictably differ from my own. It's not because I cannot tell that she has any at all, as is the case with Trump.

Trump doesn't want to know about nukes because of the pragmatic details of being a responsible CIC. He wants them because nukes are the biggest phallic symbols available to a national leader and he want to measure them against his tiny hands. If he were really interested in why we don't use them, he would be asking about the health consequences for non-combatant civilians for generations. He'd be looking at neonatal pictures from areas where DU weapons have been used, not counting how many great big missiles he can launch.

His questions were the 70-year-old man-child equivalent of "Am I gonna get a gun for Christmas? Huh, am I? When can I shoot it? What do you mean no birds, nobody's gonna shoot more birds than me, that I can tell you. The pile of dead birds is gonna be YUGE."
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08-08-2016, 08:37 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
I keep reading about trump and his tiny hands are they really smaller than normal or is this a kind of American joke I'm not picking up on ?
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08-08-2016, 08:45 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-08-2016 08:32 AM)I Am Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 06:03 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  My point was that until you know otherwise everything should be on the table. This includes the use of nukes. I have watched videos about our use of them. I have a pretty good, although incomplete knowledge of the aftermath of their use 60 years ago. Unless you are knowledgeable about their current specs, you can't know if the downside has changed at all. I am pretty sure that they have a much bigger bang than they originally did and yes I also believe I heard less radiation. I do not have access to the info needed to make a decision like that. Anyone that might have the authority to use such a device should know everything there is about what it does and the after effects. I can see Clinton not giving enough of a shit to know and either using them because she feels like it or being too afraid to use them even if she had to. Just based on not having enough info. She is a lying flake.

I can't see that in her at all. Whatever her faults, and there are several, she is not cavalier or lazy. She is a detail-oriented policy wonk who carefully examines her options, her actions, and the risks involved in each potential outcome. I may disagree with more than a few of her choices, but not on the basis of her willful ignorance, acting on whim, or deciding from fear. I question her values and her principles, but not her dedication or courage.

Further, when I question Clinton's values and principles, it's because hers consistently and predictably differ from my own. It's not because I cannot tell that she has any at all, as is the case with Trump.

Trump doesn't want to know about nukes because of the pragmatic details of being a responsible CIC. He wants them because nukes are the biggest phallic symbols available to a national leader and he want to measure them against his tiny hands. If he were really interested in why we don't use them, he would be asking about the health consequences for non-combatant civilians for generations. He'd be looking at neonatal pictures from areas where DU weapons have been used, not counting how many great big missiles he can launch.

His questions were the 70-year-old man-child equivalent of "Am I gonna get a gun for Christmas? Huh, am I? When can I shoot it? What do you mean no birds, nobody's gonna shoot more birds than me, that I can tell you. The pile of dead birds is gonna be YUGE."

I don't think so. Even if Trump is all you say he is, maybe it is a good thing. The Islamic countries we are at war with make unrealistic demands and then attack us. Maybe we need someone that will up the crazy and give them a taste of what they dish out.
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08-08-2016, 08:51 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-08-2016 08:37 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I keep reading about trump and his tiny hands are they really smaller than normal or is this a kind of American joke I'm not picking up on ?

Yes in fact his hands are smaller than the average American Male, but it is just an American joke.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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08-08-2016, 08:51 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-08-2016 08:37 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I keep reading about trump and his tiny hands are they really smaller than normal or is this a kind of American joke I'm not picking up on ?

Apparently his fingers are on the short side, but really it was just a silly example of Trump demonstrating his childishness rather than behaving like an adult. He allowed a puerile joke about his anatomy to get under his skin, so people have been using it to needle him since then.

The joke is based on the idea that a man's genitals can be estimated by the size of his hands. Or his feet, or nose, or basically any bit of anatomy except the one being estimated.
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08-08-2016, 09:03 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-08-2016 08:45 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 08:32 AM)I Am Wrote:  I can't see that in her at all. Whatever her faults, and there are several, she is not cavalier or lazy. She is a detail-oriented policy wonk who carefully examines her options, her actions, and the risks involved in each potential outcome. I may disagree with more than a few of her choices, but not on the basis of her willful ignorance, acting on whim, or deciding from fear. I question her values and her principles, but not her dedication or courage.

Further, when I question Clinton's values and principles, it's because hers consistently and predictably differ from my own. It's not because I cannot tell that she has any at all, as is the case with Trump.

Trump doesn't want to know about nukes because of the pragmatic details of being a responsible CIC. He wants them because nukes are the biggest phallic symbols available to a national leader and he want to measure them against his tiny hands. If he were really interested in why we don't use them, he would be asking about the health consequences for non-combatant civilians for generations. He'd be looking at neonatal pictures from areas where DU weapons have been used, not counting how many great big missiles he can launch.

His questions were the 70-year-old man-child equivalent of "Am I gonna get a gun for Christmas? Huh, am I? When can I shoot it? What do you mean no birds, nobody's gonna shoot more birds than me, that I can tell you. The pile of dead birds is gonna be YUGE."

I don't think so. Even if Trump is all you say he is, maybe it is a good thing. The Islamic countries we are at war with make unrealistic demands and then attack us. Maybe we need someone that will up the crazy and give them a taste of what they dish out.

Can you provide us with a list of "Islamic countries we are at war with"? Because I seem to have missed the declaration of war.
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08-08-2016, 09:23 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-08-2016 09:03 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(08-08-2016 08:45 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I don't think so. Even if Trump is all you say he is, maybe it is a good thing. The Islamic countries we are at war with make unrealistic demands and then attack us. Maybe we need someone that will up the crazy and give them a taste of what they dish out.

Can you provide us with a list of "Islamic countries we are at war with"? Because I seem to have missed the declaration of war.

Just because we have refused to acknowledge war with these countries, it does not mean they are not committing acts of war against us.
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