Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
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08-09-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
@Birdguy

I'm not an American so I couldn't care less about system of yours. As for my attitude being sick - from nut wishing war on his own country I will take this as a compliment. I guess you're too ignorant to realize what war really is.

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08-09-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-09-2016 12:33 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  As for Trump I won't be affected so I don't really care.

Maybe. Maybe not. You're in eastern Europe, right? You don't think an American president that is friendly with Putin and has a "fuck you" attitude toward NATO affects you?

I'm not so sure about that.

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08-09-2016, 01:51 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-09-2016 10:48 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 09:08 AM)BnW Wrote:  I agree with a lot of this statement.

Trump supporters are being cast as nothing but racists and nationalists and I think that characterization is absolutely wrong. Sure, people like that are clearly favoring Trump but the idea that his numbers are a reflection of that kind of sentiment only is ridiculous. The bigger issue is ordinary working people have been left behind by both parties. And, the type of globalization favored by Hillary Clinton and the Democrats is not going to make things better for these people. They have legitimate reasons to be concerned.

Take the TPP for example. The latest trade deal that is going to bend over and fuck the American worker. The Huffington Post did an article just over a month ago about how Obama was willing to basically ignore Malaysia's use of slaves and get their status changed in order to get the TPP signed before he left office. How are American workers going to compete with slave labor? The answer is: they are not. And, this article is not from Breitbart of Fox News. It's the fucking Huffington Post! You don't get a whole lot more liberal than HuffPo.

I know this is Obama and not Clinton, but she has a long history of supporting these types of trade agreements, going back to her pushing for NAFTA when her husband was President. Her last comment on TPP was she didn't like it in "it's current form" but never specified what that meant. I think it means they change a comma, add a semi-colon, and she's good to go.

If you live in middle America, you look at this deal - and all the deals like it - and there is no way you can support the people who are pushing this. And, that includes Hillary Clinton. Trump may be a total fucking lunatic, but of the two candidates, he's the one who is saying "this deal is going to make your bad situation even worse" and I'm not sure he's wrong about that.

As long as these types of issues are not addressed by the "owners" of the two major parties, you're going to see more Trumps (and probably more Sanders' too). And, ignoring the concerns of the people voting for Trump is courting disaster because there are a lot of these people and they are getting angrier and angrier. And, even as their demographics shrink, the people moving in are going to have the exact same problem that these people do. It's not unique to white men. They are just the current demographic getting hurt by it the most. That will change.

You said it far better than I could have. Not that I am not smart enough. I am just too angry. There are so many of us that are sick of the current treatment, that we would prefer crazy over the insanity that is the current government. If Trump sparks a war, so be it. A massive conflict within our borders would allow for our current leadership though I use the term loosely, to be torn down and a new government formed.

It's amazing that you think that you, personally, would thrive in circumstances of budget-deficit-expanding foreign/civil wars/anarchy. Nothing you've posted indicates you'd have the smarts or the balls to do anything more than be cannon fodder or one of the millions of people who will starve to death.

Also, speaking as a person with a child: fuck you.
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08-09-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-09-2016 01:05 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 09:08 AM)BnW Wrote:  I agree with a lot of this statement.

Trump supporters are being cast as nothing but racists and nationalists and I think that characterization is absolutely wrong. Sure, people like that are clearly favoring Trump but the idea that his numbers are a reflection of that kind of sentiment only is ridiculous. The bigger issue is ordinary working people have been left behind by both parties. And, the type of globalization favored by Hillary Clinton and the Democrats is not going to make things better for these people. They have legitimate reasons to be concerned.

Take the TPP for example. The latest trade deal that is going to bend over and fuck the American worker. The Huffington Post did an article just over a month ago about how Obama was willing to basically ignore Malaysia's use of slaves and get their status changed in order to get the TPP signed before he left office. How are American workers going to compete with slave labor? The answer is: they are not. And, this article is not from Breitbart of Fox News. It's the fucking Huffington Post! You don't get a whole lot more liberal than HuffPo.

I know this is Obama and not Clinton, but she has a long history of supporting these types of trade agreements, going back to her pushing for NAFTA when her husband was President. Her last comment on TPP was she didn't like it in "it's current form" but never specified what that meant. I think it means they change a comma, add a semi-colon, and she's good to go.

If you live in middle America, you look at this deal - and all the deals like it - and there is no way you can support the people who are pushing this. And, that includes Hillary Clinton. Trump may be a total fucking lunatic, but of the two candidates, he's the one who is saying "this deal is going to make your bad situation even worse" and I'm not sure he's wrong about that.

As long as these types of issues are not addressed by the "owners" of the two major parties, you're going to see more Trumps (and probably more Sanders' too). And, ignoring the concerns of the people voting for Trump is courting disaster because there are a lot of these people and they are getting angrier and angrier. And, even as their demographics shrink, the people moving in are going to have the exact same problem that these people do. It's not unique to white men. They are just the current demographic getting hurt by it the most. That will change.

I like globalization.

What's your favorite part? The cheap goods or the outsourcing of middle class jobs? Or, is it the massive debt it causes? Maybe the civil unrest it leaves in its wake? So many good options, it's tough to choose a favorite.

Btw, I don't believe the form of globalization we currently have is the only option. But, this version of it sucks for the vast majority of people.

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08-09-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-09-2016 01:48 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 12:33 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  As for Trump I won't be affected so I don't really care.

Maybe. Maybe not. You're in eastern Europe, right? You don't think an American president that is friendly with Putin and has a "fuck you" attitude toward NATO affects you?

I'm not so sure about that.

Yes, in Poland to be exact. And no I don't think that I have something to worry about considering my lack of belief in NATO reacting in case of Russia attacking Poland. Poland is to small and insignificant country to care about, just like in 1939 when no one cared about Russia invasion on II RP after Reich first strike.



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08-09-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
Double post

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08-09-2016, 02:01 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-09-2016 01:53 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 01:48 PM)BnW Wrote:  Maybe. Maybe not. You're in eastern Europe, right? You don't think an American president that is friendly with Putin and has a "fuck you" attitude toward NATO affects you?

I'm not so sure about that.

Yes, in Poland to be exact. And no I don't think that I have something to worry about considering my lack of belief in NATO reacting in case of Russia attacking Poland. Poland is to small and insignificant country to care about, just like in 1939 when no one cared about Russia invasion on II RP after Reich first strike.



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That may be true but right now I think Putin would think twice about attacking a NATO country. If he has a friendlier White House, maybe not. Tough to say.

Btw, I disagree with your historical interpretation. The western allies went too war after Germany invaded Poland. I think it's inaccurate to say they didn't care when Russia came over the western boarder. They just had their own issues by then.

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08-09-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-09-2016 02:01 PM)BnW Wrote:  
(08-09-2016 01:53 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Yes, in Poland to be exact. And no I don't think that I have something to worry about considering my lack of belief in NATO reacting in case of Russia attacking Poland. Poland is to small and insignificant country to care about, just like in 1939 when no one cared about Russia invasion on II RP after Reich first strike.



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That may be true but right now I think Putin would think twice about attacking a NATO country. If he has a friendlier White House, maybe not. Tough to say.


Indeed. Depends on Putin rationality.

Quote: Btw, I disagree with your historical interpretation. The western allies went too war after Germany invaded Poland. I think it's inaccurate to say they didn't care when Russia came over the western boarder. They just had their own issues by then.

They went to war, yes, but what they do which had real effect? Some say that Poland was already fucked which is at least partly true but couldn't western allies do more than they did?

As for Soviets - I may be wrong as I don't have my books with me but aside from mild outrage I can't recall more forcefull or meaningful reaction to their invasion.

Obviously my interpretation could be wrong/flawed/biassed but I would say that Poland was fucked over by it's allies (delaying mobilization on urging of allies comes to mind) and nothing much changed that would rate reaction being more than verbal spanking.


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08-09-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
They declared war, knowing how awful it would be. Not sure what else they could do. And, mobilzations take time.

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08-09-2016, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 08-09-2016 02:33 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(08-09-2016 02:19 PM)BnW Wrote:  They declared war, knowing how awful it would be. Not sure what else they could do. And, mobilzations take time.
Assist perhaps? Attack Germany? Do something more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_...Up_to_1939

As for mobilization I spoke about polish one delayed on urging of allies. If they couldn't assist they at least could not do damage to Poland war readiness. Granted it probably didn't mran much in the end but still...

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