Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
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12-10-2016, 11:39 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
I think you underestimate how right-of-center she really is. I suspect that when the dust settles there will be some pissed off dems and several conservative agendas pushed forward Big Grin
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12-10-2016, 11:44 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(12-10-2016 11:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I think the ideal outcome, given the current choices, would be for Clinton to get elected and then either stonewalled by a Republican Congress for 4/8 years, or, even better, for her to get impeached so that her much more palpable VP can take over.

I can respect this view point with the exception of impeachment such a consequence is bad for the USA Imo
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12-10-2016, 11:53 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(12-10-2016 11:35 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:32 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I'm jaded about it but also find it profoundly distressing. I don't see any easy way out, though. Revolutions are no fun, and that's about what it would take. And even then, you're probably looking at "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." I don't think Stalin and his successors were any better than the czars. Plato had some good ideas (I especially like the one about refusing political office to anyone who actively seeks it), but I wouldn't want to live in his republic either.

It's really depressing that out of all the people in this country, we couldn't come with better candidates than the two we've got. But one of them is going to be president. That's the choice we have, and we have to make the best of it (or the least bad, at least).

Which is so obviously Clinton unless you have a death wish

Yes, she is definitely the lesser of two evils in my opinion -- and not only because of the danger of nuclear war. Equally important for me is the matter of Supreme Court vacancies and who gets to fill them. That will impact us for much longer than 4-8 years.
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12-10-2016, 01:16 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(12-10-2016 10:34 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:26 AM)skyking Wrote:  That did not address my question.
How so? You asked me how someone can tell that they were doctored. The obvious answer is when the people who created them don't claim that they were doctored or when they do claim that they were doctored while at the same time refusing to prove it by showing the original document that has allegedly been altered. They are only ones who have the originals, after all. Think about it, all the DNC would have had to do to discredit the legitimacy of the WikiLeaks e-mail leak was to release a single one of their original e-mails that shows that Assange altered something before release, but they didn't. As far as I know, neither did any of the other people whose documents WikiLeaks has released over the years. Why do you think that is?

In other words, you're taking their veracity on faith.
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12-10-2016, 01:20 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(12-10-2016 01:16 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 10:34 AM)Vosur Wrote:  How so? You asked me how someone can tell that they were doctored. The obvious answer is when the people who created them don't claim that they were doctored or when they do claim that they were doctored while at the same time refusing to prove it by showing the original document that has allegedly been altered. They are only ones who have the originals, after all. Think about it, all the DNC would have had to do to discredit the legitimacy of the WikiLeaks e-mail leak was to release a single one of their original e-mails that shows that Assange altered something before release, but they didn't. As far as I know, neither did any of the other people whose documents WikiLeaks has released over the years. Why do you think that is?

In other words, you're taking their veracity on faith.

For Girly





But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-10-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(12-10-2016 11:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I think the ideal outcome, given the current choices, would be for Clinton to get elected and then either stonewalled by a Republican Congress for 4/8 years, or, even better, for her to get impeached so that her much more palpable VP can take over.

Seriously?

The only ones who get hurt when politians of both aisles stonewall each other regardless of issue just to make a point is...EVERYONE!

This isn't kindergarten when you and your friends mope in a corner and not talk to the new kids. Representatives are elected to do the nation's business, ignoring their responsibilities is utter bullshit. This kind of prepubescent thinking is why the US hasn't made bigger strides in solving important issues. Recalcitrant children in adult positions have no business governing.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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12-10-2016, 01:36 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(12-10-2016 01:27 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I think the ideal outcome, given the current choices, would be for Clinton to get elected and then either stonewalled by a Republican Congress for 4/8 years, or, even better, for her to get impeached so that her much more palpable VP can take over.

Seriously?

The only ones who get hurt when politians of both aisles stonewall each other regardless of issue just to make a point is...EVERYONE!

This isn't kindergarten when you and your friends mope in a corner and not talk to the new kids. Representatives are elected to do the nation's business, ignoring their responsibilities is utter bullshit. This kind of prepubescent thinking is why the US hasn't made bigger strides in solving important issues. Recalcitrant children in adult positions have no business governing.

Lately, it's been Republicans in Congress cutting off their noses to spite Obama, but it can go either way. A year or two ago, there was a bill in the Wisconsin State Legislature that was going to be voted in by the Republican majority no matter what, so all the Democrats left the state and hid out in Illinois for as long as they could (I'm not making this up!). It was like little kids refusing to play because they're losing. I'm a Democrat, and I was ashamed of them.

Politics is the art of compromise, and both parties are ultimately working for the people, but they seem to have forgotten that, and it's getting pretty disgusting.
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12-10-2016, 01:43 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(12-10-2016 01:27 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(12-10-2016 11:36 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I think the ideal outcome, given the current choices, would be for Clinton to get elected and then either stonewalled by a Republican Congress for 4/8 years, or, even better, for her to get impeached so that her much more palpable VP can take over.

Seriously?

The only ones who get hurt when politians of both aisles stonewall each other regardless of issue just to make a point is...EVERYONE!

This isn't kindergarten when you and your friends mope in a corner and not talk to the new kids. Representatives are elected to do the nation's business, ignoring their responsibilities is utter bullshit. This kind of prepubescent thinking is why the US hasn't made bigger strides in solving important issues. Recalcitrant children in adult positions have no business governing.

Wish I could like your comment multiple times.

It seems very easy for people who don't live here to hope for "principled" obstruction because they can't stand the fact that effective politicians tend to be pragmatists rather than ideologues.

We've already had to live through years of the Party of No. My best hope is that by some miracle (or ideally more trumpian tapes, tax docs, etc.--Assange isn't going to be any help there, obviously) we get a Democrat sweep of Congress and the Presidency and that Clinton doesn't fart around hoping to build "consensus" with the GOP, just pushes through her Supreme Court nominees, etc., between now and 2018.
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12-10-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(12-10-2016 01:16 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  In other words, you're taking their veracity on faith.
That's not what I said, but you're free to believe whatever you want.

(12-10-2016 01:27 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Seriously?

The only ones who get hurt when politians of both aisles stonewall each other regardless of issue just to make a point is...EVERYONE!

This isn't kindergarten when you and your friends mope in a corner and not talk to the new kids. Representatives are elected to do the nation's business, ignoring their responsibilities is utter bullshit. This kind of prepubescent thinking is why the US hasn't made bigger strides in solving important issues. Recalcitrant children in adult positions have no business governing.
Well, there sure as hell can be no compromise between the two ruling parties when their policies are on the extreme ends of the political spectrum respectively. Take, for instance, immigration. Both Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton promised not to deport illegal immigrants who didn't commit any crimes other than immigrating to the country illegally and to find a way for them to get a path to citizenship. Meanwhile the Republican candidates, most notably Ted Cruz and Donald Trump, promised to build a border wall between the US and Mexico and send virtually all illegal immigrants back to their home countries. Wouldn't you want the Democrats to stonewall Trump if, God forbid, he ever became president? That's how I feel about Clinton and her hawkish foreign policy.

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12-10-2016, 01:51 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
Laugh out load

Yeah that "wall" idea...


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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