Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
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27-10-2016, 09:53 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(27-10-2016 08:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(27-10-2016 07:13 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I may have to vote for Trump anyway. I can't see Clinton doing anything good with that office.

Indeed, putting a lunatic in charge will be much better Yes

A lunatic who is proud of having sexually molested women, a lunatic who has no fucken problem with waterboarding and would do it "because they deserve it anyway". A lunatic who seriously thinks his electorate is as atupid as to believe hes gonna build a wall and make the people on the other side of the wall pay for it.

If i had a vote, i would be intellectually offended, that he thinks i might even consider voting for such a terrible, insane person.

What would your founding fathers think if you told them you are going to vote for/elect a president who openly advocates torturing people, without trial? Its bad enough that this is already happening and noone seems to be really able to stop that, but openly advocating this behaviour and even suggesting to go further (kill their families!) is making every other consideration irrelevant to me.

Such a monster can not be allowed to have any power of that kind.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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27-10-2016, 10:33 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.

This election cycle has been interesting from a number of angles one of which is the interest in third parties. Notably either the Green Party headed by Jill Stein and the Libertarian party headed by Gary Johnson. Stein never really got enough momentum to make herself a factor but Johnson was close to the 15% to get on the Debate stage, something no 3rd party has done since Ross Perot. His popularity peaked in August when most voters, even those picking him in polls said they did not know much about him. This of course led to him being treated like a serious candidate and him fucking all of that up and showing himself to be what his detractors always claim about Libertarian candidates a Failed Republican not ready for prime-time rather than a legitimate 3rd option. From failing to even know what Aleppo is and not being able to name a single foreign leader he admires even softball questions from reporters show this guy to be a know nothing provincial with a bad idea on how to destroy the economy. Given party dissatisfaction with the candidates a legitimate 3rd party could have made big waves unfortunately we got 2 people that I would not trust as local dog catcher let alone PotUS.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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27-10-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(27-10-2016 10:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
This election cycle has been interesting from a number of angles one of which is the interest in third parties. Notably either the Green Party headed by Jill Stein and the Libertarian party headed by Gary Johnson. Stein never really got enough momentum to make herself a factor but Johnson was close to the 15% to get on the Debate stage, something no 3rd party has done since Ross Perot. His popularity peaked in August when most voters, even those picking him in polls said they did not know much about him. This of course led to him being treated like a serious candidate and him fucking all of that up and showing himself to be what his detractors always claim about Libertarian candidates a Failed Republican not ready for prime-time rather than a legitimate 3rd option. From failing to even know what Aleppo is and not being able to name a single foreign leader he admires even softball questions from reporters show this guy to be a know nothing provincial with a bad idea on how to destroy the economy. Given party dissatisfaction with the candidates a legitimate 3rd party could have made big waves unfortunately we got 2 people that I would not trust as local dog catcher let alone PotUS.

While I support Gary, I also acknowledge he isn't the best candidate possible - still far better than what the Dems and Repubs have offered up. He should've known where Aleppo was (and more details about foreign affairs in general), but I wouldn't say he is a failed Republican not ready for the big time. I would say he is a successful Republican, even according the much of the Democratic people he represented. He isn't a smooth talker like Obama, he isn't particularly witty like Churchhill, he isn't particularly attractive like JFK. He is middle of the road, kind of a boring personality (though not boring person), but he is honest, and his good policies far outweigh some of the bad stances he takes (in my opinion). In this election I'd even settle for Stein, though she is a bit nutty, and is kind of a new age hippie. As for the criticism of Gary not picking a favorite leader, I think you're just wrong. Saying nothing is the smart answer for an honest man. Saying anyone's name and anything bad they ever said or did get's transferred to you through association. Even a "professional" lifetime politician could've only mustered up a vague bullshit answer, or picked someone significantly far back in history so as they've been given a pass for their atrocities.

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27-10-2016, 11:04 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(27-10-2016 10:54 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(27-10-2016 10:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
This election cycle has been interesting from a number of angles one of which is the interest in third parties. Notably either the Green Party headed by Jill Stein and the Libertarian party headed by Gary Johnson. Stein never really got enough momentum to make herself a factor but Johnson was close to the 15% to get on the Debate stage, something no 3rd party has done since Ross Perot. His popularity peaked in August when most voters, even those picking him in polls said they did not know much about him. This of course led to him being treated like a serious candidate and him fucking all of that up and showing himself to be what his detractors always claim about Libertarian candidates a Failed Republican not ready for prime-time rather than a legitimate 3rd option. From failing to even know what Aleppo is and not being able to name a single foreign leader he admires even softball questions from reporters show this guy to be a know nothing provincial with a bad idea on how to destroy the economy. Given party dissatisfaction with the candidates a legitimate 3rd party could have made big waves unfortunately we got 2 people that I would not trust as local dog catcher let alone PotUS.

While I support Gary, I also acknowledge he isn't the best candidate possible - still far better than what the Dems and Repubs have offered up. He should've known where Aleppo was (and more details about foreign affairs in general), but I wouldn't say he is a failed Republican not ready for the big time. I would say he is a successful Republican, even according the much of the Democratic people he represented. He isn't a smooth talker like Obama, he isn't particularly witty like Churchhill, he isn't particularly attractive like JFK. He is middle of the road, kind of a boring personality (though not boring person), but he is honest, and his good policies far outweigh some of the bad stances he takes (in my opinion). In this election I'd even settle for Stein, though she is a bit nutty, and is kind of a new age hippie. As for the criticism of Gary not picking a favorite leader, I think you're just wrong. Saying nothing is the smart answer for an honest man. Saying anyone's name and anything bad they ever said or did get's transferred to you through association. Even a "professional" lifetime politician could've only mustered up a vague bullshit answer, or picked someone significantly far back in history so as they've been given a pass for their atrocities.

See, that is exactly why I want Hillary for at least 4 years. She will just be business as usual. And the small parties will have a chance to get their shit together - the public obviously wants change but there just isn't anything workable there this time. The small parties need to really work on becoming publicized in the next 4 years. Most people have no idea what they are all about. I wouldn't mind voting for either one, except at this time it would get a megalomaniac into office, and that is infinitely more scary than any alternative.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-10-2016, 11:06 AM (This post was last modified: 27-10-2016 11:09 AM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(27-10-2016 10:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
This election cycle has been interesting from a number of angles one of which is the interest in third parties. Notably either the Green Party headed by Jill Stein and the Libertarian party headed by Gary Johnson. Stein never really got enough momentum to make herself a factor but Johnson was close to the 15% to get on the Debate stage, something no 3rd party has done since Ross Perot. His popularity peaked in August when most voters, even those picking him in polls said they did not know much about him. This of course led to him being treated like a serious candidate and him fucking all of that up and showing himself to be what his detractors always claim about Libertarian candidates a Failed Republican not ready for prime-time rather than a legitimate 3rd option. From failing to even know what Aleppo is and not being able to name a single foreign leader he admires even softball questions from reporters show this guy to be a know nothing provincial with a bad idea on how to destroy the economy. Given party dissatisfaction with the candidates a legitimate 3rd party could have made big waves unfortunately we got 2 people that I would not trust as local dog catcher let alone PotUS.

I looked at him early on, before he changed his website (months and months ago before the primaries were done), and didn't like him. While he did support women's reproductive rights, pot, gay marriage and other things that appealed to me...I couldn't get passed the fact that he also firmly believes that states should be able to decide for themselves individually if they wanted those things or not. This falls in line with his attitude of smaller federal government.

When he spoke about getting rid of the EPA and the Department of Education -- those just pissed me off. Yes, I want state governments to decide how much crap businesses can dump -- since it's worked especially well in the past. Dodgy The education thing is also worrisome, since some states feel strongly that evolution by natural selection, shouldn't be taught in schools or even colleges.

But the Noah myth should be taught as fact.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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27-10-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(27-10-2016 11:06 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(27-10-2016 10:33 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
This election cycle has been interesting from a number of angles one of which is the interest in third parties. Notably either the Green Party headed by Jill Stein and the Libertarian party headed by Gary Johnson. Stein never really got enough momentum to make herself a factor but Johnson was close to the 15% to get on the Debate stage, something no 3rd party has done since Ross Perot. His popularity peaked in August when most voters, even those picking him in polls said they did not know much about him. This of course led to him being treated like a serious candidate and him fucking all of that up and showing himself to be what his detractors always claim about Libertarian candidates a Failed Republican not ready for prime-time rather than a legitimate 3rd option. From failing to even know what Aleppo is and not being able to name a single foreign leader he admires even softball questions from reporters show this guy to be a know nothing provincial with a bad idea on how to destroy the economy. Given party dissatisfaction with the candidates a legitimate 3rd party could have made big waves unfortunately we got 2 people that I would not trust as local dog catcher let alone PotUS.

I looked at him early on, before he changed his website (months and months ago before the primaries were done), and didn't like him. While he did support women's reproductive rights, pot, gay marriage and other things that appealed to me...I couldn't get passed the fact that he also firmly believes that states should be able to decide for themselves individually if they wanted those things or not. This falls in line with his attitude of smaller federal government.

When he spoke about getting rid of the EPA and the Department of Education -- those just pissed me off. Yes, I want state governments to decide how much crap businesses can dump -- since it's worked especially well in the past. Dodgy The education thing is also worrisome, since some states feel strongly that evolution by natural selection, shouldn't be taught in schools or even colleges.

But the Noah myth should be taught as fact.

Is smaller federal government a bad thing ? I thought the majority of Americans were in favour of smaller government, or is that just in respect of taxation?
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27-10-2016, 11:26 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(27-10-2016 11:22 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(27-10-2016 11:06 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I looked at him early on, before he changed his website (months and months ago before the primaries were done), and didn't like him. While he did support women's reproductive rights, pot, gay marriage and other things that appealed to me...I couldn't get passed the fact that he also firmly believes that states should be able to decide for themselves individually if they wanted those things or not. This falls in line with his attitude of smaller federal government.

When he spoke about getting rid of the EPA and the Department of Education -- those just pissed me off. Yes, I want state governments to decide how much crap businesses can dump -- since it's worked especially well in the past. Dodgy The education thing is also worrisome, since some states feel strongly that evolution by natural selection, shouldn't be taught in schools or even colleges.

But the Noah myth should be taught as fact.

Is smaller federal government a bad thing ? I thought the majority of Americans were in favour of smaller government, or is that just in respect of taxation?

Yes and no. Letting the states have full control of pollution control and education is a mighty scary thing, and I say that from experience. The governor of my state (Wisconsin) is a far-right asshole who has no use for education, and would gladly allow extractive industries to come in and do whatever they like. We are extremely glad to have the EPA putting some limits on him. And there are worse states than Wisconsin. Also, the thing about pollution is that it doesn't respect state boundaries. It really has to be under federal control. State X might be willing to put up with unlimited pollution, but what about its neighbors?
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27-10-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
There it is. When we talk about the smaller parties, we talk about issues. It's all about issues. Unlike with Trump and Hillary, where it's all scandals.

I am soo ready for a multi party system.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-10-2016, 12:40 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(27-10-2016 11:58 AM)Dom Wrote:  There it is. When we talk about the smaller parties, we talk about issues. It's all about issues. Unlike with Trump and Hillary, where it's all scandals.

I am soo ready for a multi party system.

I really respect that viewpoint it should be the model for progressive politics Imo.
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27-10-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(27-10-2016 11:22 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(27-10-2016 11:06 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  I looked at him early on, before he changed his website (months and months ago before the primaries were done), and didn't like him. While he did support women's reproductive rights, pot, gay marriage and other things that appealed to me...I couldn't get passed the fact that he also firmly believes that states should be able to decide for themselves individually if they wanted those things or not. This falls in line with his attitude of smaller federal government.

When he spoke about getting rid of the EPA and the Department of Education -- those just pissed me off. Yes, I want state governments to decide how much crap businesses can dump -- since it's worked especially well in the past. Dodgy The education thing is also worrisome, since some states feel strongly that evolution by natural selection, shouldn't be taught in schools or even colleges.

But the Noah myth should be taught as fact.

Is smaller federal government a bad thing ? I thought the majority of Americans were in favour of smaller government, or is that just in respect of taxation?

You have to weigh people's wants as far as government in selfish ways. People who speed all the time, want small enough government on the roads to never get a ticket for being an asshole driver. People that scam people or do other illegal things on the internet, want less government in that area so they can keep doing what they do. The rich want less government in their particular interests so they can cheat laws and pay less taxes. Companies that get paid to dispose of dangerous waste want less government, so they can get away with dumping shit in the oceans rather than pay for the cost of proper disposal. I think you get my point.
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