Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
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17-06-2016, 12:35 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 11:31 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  My math works. If there is a group of 1000 people and 300 of them don't pay their share and even take from the others, the others have to pay more. If all pay their share, then all would pay less. It is very simple.

Your math don't work. What you see as "simple" those of us who know better call naive and simplistic and uninformed.

#sigh
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17-06-2016, 12:42 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 12:02 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Speaking of tax burdens...

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on day, the owner proposed the following. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men -- the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got TEN times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without h im. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

One little problem with that analogy: two of the poor men and just about everyone else should have started fíngering the bartender as the cause of all their "troubles".

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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17-06-2016, 12:55 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 12:42 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 12:02 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Speaking of tax burdens...

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on day, the owner proposed the following. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men -- the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got TEN times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without h im. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

One little problem with that analogy: two of the poor men and just about everyone else should have started fíngering the bartender as the cause of all their "troubles".

Ok, then. How about this? If everyone has to work and pay at least some taxes, the majority of the country would be pissed off at what their money is being spent on and things might actually change. Instead what we have is a large portion of people soaking up tax dollars and demanding more money to sit around and do nothing.
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17-06-2016, 01:07 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 12:55 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 12:42 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  One little problem with that analogy: two of the poor men and just about everyone else should have started fíngering the bartender as the cause of all their "troubles".

Ok, then. How about this? If everyone has to work and pay at least some taxes, the majority of the country would be pissed off at what their money is being spent on and things might actually change. Instead what we have is a large portion of people soaking up tax dollars and demanding more money to sit around and do nothing.

You have a very strange way of looking at things. I disagree with a lot of what our government does, but I don't think of it as "what they're spending my money on", and i would disagree with the same things regardless of how much I paid in taxes (including zero). I very much doubt that welfare recipients would find a whole new set of things to be pissed off about if they started paying taxes -- unless they had the same sort of diseased minds as you.
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17-06-2016, 01:08 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2016 02:31 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 12:55 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 12:42 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  One little problem with that analogy: two of the poor men and just about everyone else should have started fíngering the bartender as the cause of all their "troubles".

Ok, then. How about this? If everyone has to work and pay at least some taxes, the majority of the country would be pissed off at what their money is being spent on and things might actually change. Instead what we have is a large portion of people soaking up tax dollars and demanding more money to sit around and do nothing.

You have no credibility until you disclose your effective tax rate. Depending on the level of your income and deductions I think you are likely paying a very low or even negative effective tax rate. Show me that you are not one of the very leeches you despise so much. Instead of worrying so much about the cost of welfare you should be more concerned with the cost of giving me $50,000 per annum in deductions. I'm a bigger leech than anyone on welfare.

#sigh
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17-06-2016, 01:28 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 12:55 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 12:42 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  One little problem with that analogy: two of the poor men and just about everyone else should have started fíngering the bartender as the cause of all their "troubles".

Ok, then. How about this? If everyone has to work and pay at least some taxes, the majority of the country would be pissed off at what their money is being spent on and things might actually change. Instead what we have is a large portion of people soaking up tax dollars and demanding more money to sit around and do nothing.

The elderly? They'll never take the blame.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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17-06-2016, 01:37 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 12:42 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  One little problem with that analogy: two of the poor men and just about everyone else should have started fíngering the bartender as the cause of all their "troubles".

That goes without saying. Drinking Beverage

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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17-06-2016, 01:43 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 01:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 12:55 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Ok, then. How about this? If everyone has to work and pay at least some taxes, the majority of the country would be pissed off at what their money is being spent on and things might actually change. Instead what we have is a large portion of people soaking up tax dollars and demanding more money to sit around and do nothing.

You have no credibility until you state your effective tax rate. Depending on the level of your income and deductions I think you are likely paying a very low or even negative effective tax rate. Show me that you are not one of the very leeches you despise so much. Instead of worrying so much about the cost of welfare you should be more concerned with the cost of giving me $50,000 in deductions. I'm a bigger leech than anyone on welfare.

I’m not saying Birdguy1979 is one of those that has taken unemployment, or is currently on Social Security or gets a tax refund every year, I’m not going to suggest that at all; but what I do want to know is the answer to Girly’s question before I levy charges of the pot calling the kettle black.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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17-06-2016, 01:46 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 12:55 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Instead what we have is a large portion of people soaking up tax dollars and demanding more money to sit around and do nothing.

Who? I keep seeing this claim. I don't ever see a large list of names or geographic areas full of people in this situation. It's just a "them".

I am sometimes on unemployment insurance. I have a seasonal gov job. My current "season" has been almost 16 months and counting. When we run out of work I will be "furloughed" or temporarily laid off in real world terms. When that happens, I will draw UI until I am called back. While drawing UI I will be required to make 5 job search contacts every week, which is not easy work. I will have to satisfy reporting requirements, make payment requests on schedule with complete forms. UI is harder work than my real job, for much less pay. And if I stay on furlough too long, UI will run out and then... What? Nothing I guess. Destitution inside two weeks.

Who are these lucky magic people who get plenty of welfare pay for ever, for nothing? That is not the system I work with.
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17-06-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 10:01 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 08:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  ... Living on your dime huh? Taxes are your fee to live in society. Not your property, once they leave your pocket.

While this is somewhat true, my taxes would be lower if all able bodied people actually worked and paid taxes. The ones that never have and never will are yes, living on my dime.

Well shit...I don't want my tax dollars to finance war or really most military spending.

If you want to bitch what less than 1% of your tax dollars goes for.....

I should get to bitch a lot more since more of my tax dollars goes to military spending than anything else. Drinking Beverage


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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