Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
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17-06-2016, 02:13 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
The issue, as I see it, is that those of us who pay into the system and play by the rules get bent out of shape because there are those who game the system and don’t play by the rules. I get that. It pisses me off too.

However let’s look at the data so we can make some informed comments shall we?

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-many-t...ax-bracket

[Image: Bracket%20Numbers.png]

Out of the 137,906,496 tax payers 36,860,716 or 26.7% don’t pay any taxes.

Next step.

“The point is, that if we are going to talk about how much people pay in taxes, it is fair to do a full fiscal accounting and see how much they also get back in federal spending relative to the taxes they pay.”

"As can be seen in the charts below, the results for 2009 are quite shocking. Basically, we find that the first three quintiles (including the “middle-class”) all received more in transfer income than they paid in all federal taxes, while the fourth quintile was virtually at parity. Only the top quintile paid substantially far more in total taxes than they got back in transfer income.”

[Image: Transfer%20Income%20and%20Taxes%202009.png]

and

[Image: Ratio%20of%20Taxes%20and%20Transfers%202009.png]

“This raises an obvious and troubling question: Is it reasonable or fiscally responsible to ask the top 20 percent of households to pay for the government benefits of the other 80 percent of households?"

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/60-percent...-pay-taxes

In a nutshell, if you aren’t in the top 20% of households YOU are getting more in benefits than you pay the Federal government. So back to Girly’s question...where do you fall in the income tax bracket? Because if you aren’t in the top 20% you have no one to be getting pissed off at.

If you are in the top 20% then you have a legitimate beef with the progressive tax structure as it exists now.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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17-06-2016, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2016 02:22 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
And because I like colorful and informative charts here is one more.

Doesn’t want to post, see link.

In 2009 the top 1% of taxpayer paid 38% of all taxes, more than the bottom 90% combined.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/chart-day-...-1985-2010

*See beer drinking story post.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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17-06-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 02:18 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  And because I like colorful and informative charts here is one more.

Doesn’t want to post, see link.

In 2009 the top 1% of taxpayer paid 38% of all taxes, more than the bottom 90% combined.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/chart-day-...-1985-2010

*See beer drinking story post.

*Income Tax only

When you add in sales taxes (something everyone pays) other direct taxes it balances out much more evenly.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-06-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 02:06 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 10:01 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  While this is somewhat true, my taxes would be lower if all able bodied people actually worked and paid taxes. The ones that never have and never will are yes, living on my dime.

Well shit...I don't want my tax dollars to finance war or really most military spending.

If you want to bitch what less than 1% of your tax dollars goes for.....

I should get to bitch a lot more since more of my tax dollars goes to military spending than anything else. Drinking Beverage

You shouldn't have to pay for that aircraft carrier. It might encourage dependency on the navy's part. Plus, they don't deserve "free stuff", such as said aircraft carrier.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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17-06-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 02:18 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  And because I like colorful and informative charts here is one more.

Doesn’t want to post, see link.

In 2009 the top 1% of taxpayer paid 38% of all taxes, more than the bottom 90% combined.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/chart-day-...-1985-2010

*See beer drinking story post.

Even if you can get Birdguy to see your logic, he's still going to complain because there are people farther down the chart who are getting more for their tax dollar than he is. He doesn't care about the people at the top who are getting less. If there's even one person who gets more than he does, he'll be pissed off. He's like the guy getting $10 worth of beer for $1 who resents the guy getting it for nothing.

He also doesn't seem to realize that people on welfare are not living lives of luxury. If he thinks they have it so good, he should give that lifestyle a try. I wouldn't want it.
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17-06-2016, 02:35 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2016 03:22 PM by Momsurroundedbyboys.)
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 02:31 PM)Old Man Marsh Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 02:06 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Well shit...I don't want my tax dollars to finance war or really most military spending.

If you want to bitch what less than 1% of your tax dollars goes for.....

I should get to bitch a lot more since more of my tax dollars goes to military spending than anything else. Drinking Beverage

You shouldn't have to pay for that aircraft carrier. It might encourage dependency on the navy's part. Plus, they don't deserve "free stuff", such as said aircraft carrier.

No kidding enabling the navy to get more free stuff on my dime.

Fuck that shit. Hobo


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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17-06-2016, 02:47 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 02:26 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 02:18 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  And because I like colorful and informative charts here is one more.

Doesn’t want to post, see link.

In 2009 the top 1% of taxpayer paid 38% of all taxes, more than the bottom 90% combined.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/chart-day-...-1985-2010

*See beer drinking story post.

*Income Tax only

When you add in sales taxes (something everyone pays) other direct taxes it balances out much more evenly.

Yes, the chart only represents payroll taxes. Consumption tax or Value Added Tax in some countries (VAT) isn’t linked to your income but spending habits.

However would you clarify what you mean by “balances out much more evenly”.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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17-06-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.



#sigh
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17-06-2016, 04:06 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 02:47 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 02:26 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  *Income Tax only

When you add in sales taxes (something everyone pays) other direct taxes it balances out much more evenly.

Yes, the chart only represents payroll taxes. Consumption tax or Value Added Tax in some countries (VAT) isn’t linked to your income but spending habits.

However would you clarify what you mean by “balances out much more evenly”.

They are flat taxes so 5%(as an example) sales tax is 5% on any taxable purchase regardless of your income. These kind of taxes tend to hit you much harder the further down the income ladder you go. So yes a progressive income tax puts the burdon on the upper end a flat tax (or regressive tax) puts a much higher burdon the lower end. From a federal standpoint about half the country pays little to no taxes but those same people are hit much harder by local sales taxes. That is what I meant by it ballances out.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-06-2016, 04:34 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(17-06-2016 02:13 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The issue, as I see it, is that those of us who pay into the system and play by the rules get bent out of shape because there are those who game the system and don’t play by the rules. I get that. It pisses me off too.

However let’s look at the data so we can make some informed comments shall we?

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/how-many-t...ax-bracket

[Image: Bracket%20Numbers.png]

Out of the 137,906,496 tax payers 36,860,716 or 26.7% don’t pay any taxes.

Next step.

“The point is, that if we are going to talk about how much people pay in taxes, it is fair to do a full fiscal accounting and see how much they also get back in federal spending relative to the taxes they pay.”

"As can be seen in the charts below, the results for 2009 are quite shocking. Basically, we find that the first three quintiles (including the “middle-class”) all received more in transfer income than they paid in all federal taxes, while the fourth quintile was virtually at parity. Only the top quintile paid substantially far more in total taxes than they got back in transfer income.”

[Image: Transfer%20Income%20and%20Taxes%202009.png]

and

[Image: Ratio%20of%20Taxes%20and%20Transfers%202009.png]

“This raises an obvious and troubling question: Is it reasonable or fiscally responsible to ask the top 20 percent of households to pay for the government benefits of the other 80 percent of households?"

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/60-percent...-pay-taxes

In a nutshell, if you aren’t in the top 20% of households YOU are getting more in benefits than you pay the Federal government. So back to Girly’s question...where do you fall in the income tax bracket? Because if you aren’t in the top 20% you have no one to be getting pissed off at.

If you are in the top 20% then you have a legitimate beef with the progressive tax structure as it exists now.

So i what manner did one earning and paying taxes on $45,000 get money from the federal till? Now I paid in social security taxes from the age of 13 to the age of 62 so the $11700 I got from the government last year is what they forced me to pay into the system, but my kids both work and are in the $1000 a week bracket at present and someone would have to explain to me how they are getting transfered funds from the US government. PLease. One can invent a chart that says any damn thing they wanna say, but truth is a whole nuther smoke.
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