Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-07-2016, 06:59 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
People can delude themselves in believing anything even in the face of pesky facts. On Trump and his dystopian views and he being the Knight in Shining Armor coming to our rescue.

Delusions of Chaos by P. Krugman

"Again, however, it’s one thing to have a shaky grasp on crime statistics, but something quite different to accept a nightmare vision of America that conflicts so drastically with everyday experience. So what’s going on?

Well, I do have a hypothesis, namely, that Trump supporters really do feel, with some reason, that the social order they knew is coming apart. It’s not just race, where the country has become both more diverse and less racist (even if it still has a long way to go). It’s also about gender roles — when Mr. Trump talks about making America great again, you can be sure that many of his supporters are imagining a return to the (partly imagined) days of male breadwinners and stay-at-home wives.”


Full op-ed piece
The Opinion Pages | OP-ED COLUMNIST

Delusions of Chaos
Paul Krugman JULY 25, 2016

Last year there were 352 murders in New York City. This was a bit higher than the number in 2014, but far below the 2245 murders that took place in 1990, the city’s worst year. In fact, as measured by the murder rate, New York is now basically as safe as it has ever been, going all the way back to the 19th century.

National crime statistics, and numbers for all violent crimes, paint an only slightly less cheerful picture. And it’s not just a matter of numbers; our big cities look and feel far safer than they did a generation ago, because they are. People of a certain age always have the sense that America isn’t the country they remember from their youth, and in this case they’re right — it has gotten much better.

How, then, was it even possible for Donald Trump to give a speech accepting the Republican nomination whose central premise was that crime is running rampant, and that “I alone” can bring the chaos under control?

Of course, nobody should be surprised to see Mr. Trump confidently asserting things that are flatly untrue, since he does that all the time — and never corrects his falsehoods. Indeed, the big speech repeated some of those golden oldies, like the claim that America is the world’s most highly taxed country (when we are actually near the bottom among advanced economies).

But until now the false claims have been about things ordinary voters can’t check against their own experience. Most people don’t have any sense of how their taxes compare with those paid by Europeans or Canadians, let alone how many jobs have been displaced by Chinese competition. But 58 million tourists visited New York last year; tens of millions more visited other major cities; and of course many of us live in or near those cities, and see them every day. And while there are, as there always were, bad neighborhoods and occasional violent incidents, it’s hard to see how anyone who walks around with open eyes could believe in the blood-soaked dystopian vision Mr. Trump laid out.

Yet there’s no question that many voters — including, almost surely, a majority of white men — will indeed buy into that vision. Why?

One answer is that, according to Gallup, Americans always seem to believe that crime is increasing, even when it is in fact dropping rapidly. Part of this may be the wording of the question: People may have a vague, headline-fueled sense that crime is up this year even while being aware that it’s much lower than it used to be. There may also be some version of the “bad things are happening somewhere else” syndrome we see in consumer surveys, where people are far more positive about their personal situation than they are about the economy as a whole.

Again, however, it’s one thing to have a shaky grasp on crime statistics, but something quite different to accept a nightmare vision of America that conflicts so drastically with everyday experience. So what’s going on?

Well, I do have a hypothesis, namely, that Trump supporters really do feel, with some reason, that the social order they knew is coming apart. It’s not just race, where the country has become both more diverse and less racist (even if it still has a long way to go). It’s also about gender roles — when Mr. Trump talks about making America great again, you can be sure that many of his supporters are imagining a return to the (partly imagined) days of male breadwinners and stay-at-home wives.

Not incidentally, Mike Pence, Mr. Trump’s running mate, used to fulminate about the damage done by working mothers, not to mention penning an outraged attack on Disney in 1999 for featuring a martially-minded heroine in its movie Mulan.

But what are the consequences of these changes in the social order? Back when crime was rising, conservatives insistently drew a connection to social change — that was what the whole early ’90s fuss over “family values” was about. Loose the bonds of traditional society, and chaos would follow.

Then a funny thing happened: Crime plunged instead of continuing to rise. Other indicators also improved dramatically — for example, the teen birthrate has fallen 60 percent since 1991. Instead of societal collapse, we’ve seen what amounts to a mass outbreak of societal health. The truth is that we don’t know exactly why. Hypotheses range from the changing age distribution of the population to reduced lead poisoning; but in any case, the predicted apocalypse notably failed to arrive.

The point, however, is that in the minds of those disturbed by social change, chaos in the streets was supposed to follow, and they are all too willing to believe that it did, in the teeth of the evidence.

The question now is how many such people, people determined to live in a nightmare of their own imagining, there really are. I guess we’ll find out in November.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 07:08 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(23-07-2016 07:22 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(22-07-2016 12:13 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...Glaces.jpg[/img]

He's got another mansion in Florida full of the same crap. Something tells me Donald Trump doesn't understand middle class Americans.

Talk about delusions of grandeur!

Urgh! No taste at all. It's all show. If gold was a worthless metal then he'd have chosen something else. He's probably doing it as much for his own sense of self esteem as anything else.

That man is a complete fool.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(03-03-2016 09:44 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  A statistic getting no mention whatsoever in the primary frenzy seems to me potentially representative of the possible general election outcome, and it's a doozy:

Thus far, in 14 states where both political parties have held primaries, 16,270,018 voters cast their ballot. 3,958,847 of them voted for Clinton, 3,358,611 voted for Trump. That's a 600,000 vote lead.

Moreover, 9,672,999 of those votes were cast by Republicans, 6,597,019 were from Democrats - Clinton beats Trump in straight up votes from a pool of voters only 2/3 the pool Trump drew his votes from.

Hence while Trump may emerge as the Republican nominee, I think his chances in the general are less sanguine by significant degree.

Why this perspective is not even mentioned in Nate Silver's excellent fivethirtyeight is quite a mystery - for example, there was a lot of bluster all over the media about Trump winning by a large margin such a liberal stronghold as Massachussetts. Except he didn't, not by miles. Clinton won 603,784 votes out of 1,204,927 votes cast by Democrats, Trump only got 311,313 votes out of 621,122 cast by Republicans. That is NOT a Trump victory by any yardstick I'm familiar with, other than the sawed off rulers our science challenged media thinks serves as yardsticks.

Clinton has bested Trump in every state except Alabama, Tennessee, New Hampshire, Vermont and Nevada. Even Sanders has beat Trump in 6 states.

I think a large number of us could be served a heaping helping of extra sweet schadenfreude later on this year.

May be you should worry

http://theresurgent.com/i-now-believe-do...residency/

So, Dems are mocking Sander's religion. "let's ask him about God. Sanders is most likely an atheist".

I watch news from Moscow once in a while. They love Trump. Putin's friends and Trump do business.
Thanks to Hillary's recklessness Russians have all her emails. I suspected long time ago that Trump knows something about Hillary Americans don't know yet.
BTW, I will not vote for Trump.
I will not vote for the crooked Hilllary.
My conscience does not allow me. America has horrible candidates this time.
I don't want to tell atheists "may God help us all" so I will say "good luck to all of us"

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Alla's post
25-07-2016, 10:18 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
Clinton is the least horrible of the two by far and that's from an outsider but hey ho nevermind ehh maybe some one clad in magic underwear will appear to rescue us before doomsday along with Jesus and zenu the galactic interlord along with inner thatens etc etc. Or perhaps America embraces it's own demise, after all birdguy (aka drive by) one has to ensure a big solid wall against those pesky Mexicans .
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 10:23 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
This pretty much says it all: no facts, just feelings.

https://youtu.be/zNdkrtfZP8I

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 10:49 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(25-07-2016 10:18 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Clinton is the least horrible of the two by far.

It doesn't comfort me. I don't support horrible no matter how big or small it is.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
(25-07-2016 10:49 AM)Alla Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 10:18 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Clinton is the least horrible of the two by far.

It doesn't comfort me. I don't support horrible no matter how big or small it is.

Of course you do, you're a Mormon.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
----
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes WillHopp's post
25-07-2016, 02:43 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
We're worried, largely because the DNC front runner was artificially put there and is not a viable candidate.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 03:05 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
Damnit... herpes is back.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 03:25 PM
RE: Worrying About a Trump Victory? Don't.
Washington Post editorial: Donald Trump 'a danger to the nation and the world' ...

The Washington Post has labelled Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump as "dangerous for the nation and the world"...

A US newspaper has taken the unprecedented step of writing an editorial against a presidential candidate the day after he launched his campaign.

The Washington Post has labelled Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump as "dangerous for the nation and the world"....

"Donald J. Trump, until now a Republican problem, this week became a challenge the nation must confront and overcome," the Post's editorial board wrote on Friday...

"The real estate tycoon is uniquely unqualified to serve as president, in experience and temperament."

"He is mounting a campaign of snarl and sneer, not substance. To the extent he has views, they are wrong in their diagnosis of America's problems and dangerous in their proposed solutions," the board wrote.

"Any one of these characteristics would be disqualifying; together, they make Mr Trump a peril... He displays no curiosity, reads no books and appears to believe he needs no advice," they wrote.

"Most alarming is Mr Trump's contempt for the constitution and the unwritten democratic norms upon which our system depends.

"He doesn't know what is in the nation's founding document. When asked by a member of Congress about article I, which enumerates congressional powers, the candidate responded: 'I am going to abide by the constitution whether it's No. 1, No. 2, No. 12, No. 9." "The charter has seven articles," the board wrote.

—25 July 2016, 9:42PM

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes SYZ's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: