Worst apologetic yet
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22-06-2013, 12:19 PM
Worst apologetic yet
Yesterday at work I was once again needling my theist friend with bizarre questions. After asking him God is a good role model for parenting, he said "yes" and if God was a loving father, he again answered "Yes", but with that look that he knew it was a set up. I asked him, "If your daughters became unruly, so unruly that their minds seemed evil continuously...would you drown them and then start over? I know a loving father who once did the same thing." He didn't answer, but he did try to change the subject to the questions I had regarding the total murder and rapes and enslavements "documented" in the bible. He said these commands were not to be taken literally. At first I thought, "Oh no...not the 'metaphor' thing again." but it was much worse. He said that these commands to kill every one, their animals and to take the virgins for themselves etc., were similar to when sports teams talk about "destroying" or "killing" their opponent. He said these were just "motivational" speeches designed to pump up the soldiers who were preparing for battle.

I looked at him and asked, "Do you really believe this? Or better yet, do you expect me to buy it?" I told him that in all my years of coaching football, that even though I said something to the effect of, "Lets get out there and kick their ass, or 'kill 'em" I never followed the statement with, "Lets go out there and kill them, kill their pets, kill their friends, kill all their family members, take their property and keep every female who had never had sex for ourselves to fuck!"

In the realm of "Worst Explanation Ever" I'd have to say that this one is tops in my experience.

"Now I don't want to be sane either, but I'm just saying there may be other delusions and hallucinations worthy of consideration before jumping to an irrational conclusion, that's all."
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22-06-2013, 12:44 PM
RE: Worst apologetic yet
what was his response to that last comment?

yeah its up there but i think some of the work of William lane Craig or banana man likely hold that title

honestly i dont know how he can compare what the soldiers were to do with the people to a speech to rile up people before a game as its quite quite different (obviously)

"Villain, i have done thy mother" - Aaron, Act IV, Scene II of Titus Andronicus
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22-06-2013, 12:53 PM
RE: Worst apologetic yet
Actually he just laughed at the last response. He knew from the get go that this wasn't going to fly, but I think he felt pressured to say something even if it was anything, and even if that anything was asinine.

"Now I don't want to be sane either, but I'm just saying there may be other delusions and hallucinations worthy of consideration before jumping to an irrational conclusion, that's all."
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22-06-2013, 01:00 PM
RE: Worst apologetic yet
When someone creates their own lie and is then caught - usually because something about it contradicts reality - they can usually own up and move on.

When someone finds out they are supporting someone else's lie, they will often defend this lie unto death. (the death of something - belief perhaps)

No one wants to admit they've been had... especially to someone who informs them. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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22-06-2013, 01:49 PM
RE: Worst apologetic yet
He is a Craig fan as well. I've been Craig/Kalamed to death by him. One of my favorite things to ask is, "2 Peter says that God is willing that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance, right?" He of course says yes. So I ask him that if this is true, then isn't "faith" a stupid way of achieving this will, especially for an omnipotent being who can easily achieve such a goal?

"Now I don't want to be sane either, but I'm just saying there may be other delusions and hallucinations worthy of consideration before jumping to an irrational conclusion, that's all."
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22-06-2013, 02:29 PM
RE: Worst apologetic yet
(22-06-2013 12:19 PM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  He said that these commands to kill every one, their animals and to take the virgins for themselves etc., were similar to when sports teams talk about "destroying" or "killing" their opponent. He said these were just "motivational" speeches designed to pump up the soldiers who were preparing for battle.

You might point out to him that there are often follow-up verses that document the massacres. For example, when "Joshua fit the battle of Jericho" and the walls came a-tumblin' down,

"They [the Israelite army] exterminated everything in the city with the sword: man and woman, young and old, ox and sheep and ass." [Joshua 6:21]

Sounds like those "motivational" speeches got the soldiers just a little too pumped up.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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22-06-2013, 02:33 PM
RE: Worst apologetic yet
Your acquaintance will only ever look to arguments to support and never deny the lies he's accepted.

If he ever does doubt, he will certainly never, ever tell you. Unless his doubt becomes so great that he drops all pretense and becomes atheist.

As an atheist, he just might seek you out... but that would be only after many years.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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22-06-2013, 04:54 PM
RE: Worst apologetic yet
(22-06-2013 01:49 PM)Fisty_McBeefpunch Wrote:  He is a Craig fan as well. I've been Craig/Kalamed to death by him. One of my favorite things to ask is, "2 Peter says that God is willing that none should perish, but that all should come to repentance, right?" He of course says yes. So I ask him that if this is true, then isn't "faith" a stupid way of achieving this will, especially for an omnipotent being who can easily achieve such a goal?

There is always Calvin's true and tried method of interpersonal dialogue Big Grin

   

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“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."- Mark Twain in Eruption
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